So many opinions...what paint?

Discussion in 'Materials' started by daniel freixo, May 27, 2018.

  1. fluffflinger
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    fluffflinger Junior Member

    I appreciate what you say but poor paint jobs are usually down to poor prep and unwillingness to spend the money on a good coating. But like most things in life you get what you pay for. On a small boat a bit of extra spend on your finish will pay huge dividends. Plus they can be repaired by the owner.

    How many gelcoat repairs have you seen that look simply dreadful. Colour matching old gelcoat isn't easy unless you are a pro.

    Having said all that we are all a bit precious about looks when in fact their are a lot more important things to have right on your boat.
     
  2. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Of course there are more important things, but when it comes to resale, it is better to have a slick appearance.
     
  3. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    All paints have gloss ratings don't they?

    Seems prudent to compare.

    The really bad thing about some paints is the inability to touch up. That EMC/ Quantum offers a touch up can is no small matter.

    I really have not made a paint decision, yet, but need to soon, so thanks for the tip on EMC.

    Perhaps someone can find gloss ratings...maybe I will look
     
  4. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Quantum 99 is >92@60 degrees

    Unable to ascertain gloss ratings from awlgrip or perfection from the tds.

    But is the gloss rating a function of color; not sure.
     
  5. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Gloss increases with dark colours, and with smoother substrates. One suspects that the use of clearcoats over automotive paints lifts gloss levels considerably, and more easily than buffing. Never heard of 2-pack PU clears over the top of a pigmented PU, maybe it is not clear enough, or UV resistant enough.
     
  6. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    From some limited understanding, I thought the pigments in the 2p pus drops and the top is a clear layer. And this is why touch up is a problem, or so I've heard is all.

    Of course, this is a little hard to comprehend; the mode of it. 'Drops' is not gravity, etc.

    The Quantum says ultra high gloss vs high gloss for the others, but is it marketing fluff?
     
  7. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Ultra high gloss is not necessarily desirable, unless you have a flawless surface to paint, all flaws will be considerably amplified.
     
  8. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Which is it then?

    I doubt the gloss differences are that great to make your second point valid between Perfection, Quantum, Awlgrip, or Awlcraft.

    What sets Quantum apart is the $70 spray repair can. How awesome to be able to go in and after a year or two or some problem to haul and touch up for 70 bucks. But it sure is pricey.
     
  9. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Gloss level is sometimes specified by %, matt 10%, for example, Gloss might be 70% for a certain brand and type, or even colour. I doubt flaws that show up with "ultra high", whatever that denotes, won't be just as obvious with "gloss".
     
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  10. fluffflinger
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    fluffflinger Junior Member

    Unless you have seen two boats side by side both white one Awlgrip one Quantum you will not truly appreciate the vast difference. I have and the Awlgrip boat was prepped and painted by a professional.

    After five years the paint on my boat when it was sold was flawless and after a quick wash as good as it was the day it was applied.

    Whatever they put in the blurb or literature doesn't compare to a real life comparrison.

    Quantum also do a clearcoat which apparently takes their gloss level to new heights plus it's benefit as added protection. They have adhesion enhancers that allow you to paint straight over Gelcoat with no primer and a host of other forward thinking and creative solution to Marine coatings. Their varnish is pretty neat stuff.

    Not many paint manufacturers, IMHO, are as proactive in product developmemt.

    If you get the chance to see the results that rank amateurs can produce you would be a convert.

    I don't think a lot of people would recommend to a total novice spending thousands of dollars on a two part like Awlgrip. It is a combination that is very likely to fail.

    If you want to talk technicalities then Quantum 99 has a higher solids content than Awlgrip as well as better colour retention, lower Doc's etc etc. That means little to me, (actually it does higher solids mean better coverage less paint required and more dollars in my pocket) all I know is it's easy to apply in wide ranging conditions and produces great results that after five years in the Florida sun had not deteriorated in the slightest.

    Fallguy has it it one regarding the spray can. The only remedial work I ever did to my boat after a dock leapt out in front of me was to buy a spray can to repair some scratches. Bit of sanding, bit of masking, three coats of paint over a two hour period and a quick buff (by hand) the following day and even I can't see the repair and I know exactly where it was. Boat was in the water at the time, I did it from my dinghy.

    I know I sound like this stuff must have got into my brain but it truly is an amazing product and I have been around boats long enough to know what is good great or amazing.
     
  11. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    The EMC tds is sure confusing.

    All the three different thickness coatings show a simple 1 mil coverage and a 3 mil.

    But, if you have three varying viscosities; they all cover at varying thickness.

    So, rather difficult to convert to a materials/$ budget.

    Anyhow, I emailed about it. They said the wet mil coverage for the high build was 3-4 mils and gave me quantities used for a 42' cat.

    But very confusing.
     
  12. fluffflinger
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    fluffflinger Junior Member

    If you want me to give you an estimate on what quantities you'd require let me know and I'll work it out for you. Just need to know your method of application. Spray or roll and are we talking just primer or top coat as well.

    Cheers

    Richard
     
  13. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    It is very kind. But the problem was determining coverages for their highbuild primer.

    I tell you what. Use 2250 square feet and tell me how many gallons of Quantum 45 I need.

    The 2250 is too high because I need to remove about 250 for bottom paint. But that is 10% for a waste factor.

    Roll.

    Thanks.
     
  14. fluffflinger
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    fluffflinger Junior Member

    First up rolling is possible but you will achieve a better surface and use less paint if you spray, plus you will reduce the sanding required by 50%. Like most things you are undertaking in your build a bit of time to learn a new skill is worth it and rewarding in itself. I have rolled primer on two large cats and would never do it again as having helped paint another cat which had the primer applied by spraying the difference in the surface you then have to sand is chalk and cheese.

    Spraying will yield a much more consistent film thickness. On totally flat surfaces rolling is fine if long winded and slow but when you are dealing with all the curves and crevices on a boat spraying is much the preferred route.

    Spraying primer is a great way to learn the ins and outs of spray equipment and technique. You are going to sand most of the stuff off again so mistakes are not a problem. And you will be better prepared to spray your final finish. If you want to know more then please ask.

    In theory three coats will need 7.5 gallons for your given area. But it all depends on your surface quality.

    I would say buy four or five gallons and see where that gets you. If you spray and are not dealing with a really rough substrate this should be adequate. I did the entire exterior of a 37ft cruising cat and used five gallons applied with a roller.

    You don't need to remove the primer on the areas that will receive bottom paint this is an epoxy based primer and will merely act as a barrier coat but needs sanding prior to application of your choosen bottom paint.

    One thing you need to be aware of is how you are going to paint the boat overall. Planning isneverthing.

    All epoxy primers have a recoat window. That is how long after sanding the primer can I apply top coat. With Quantum 45 you have seven days after sanding to apply your top coat for maximum adhesion. The less time the better but I think it seven days max at 70f. So you have two choices prime, sand and apply top coat in mangeable sections within this window. Or prime as you build and then just sand each section just before topcoating. The later solution is probably the best but it is epoxy based primer and it is a million times easier to sand the day after application rather than waiting for weeks or months and then sanding. If it is a repaint job I would spray top coat the day after sanding the primer.

    Buy the best a abrasives you can, preferably film not paper backed. Platinum Film Backed Hook and Loop Sanding Discs https://www.abrasiveresource.com/Platinum-Film-Backed-Hook-and-Loop-Sanding-Discs-s/2480.htm and this stuff for hand sanding or longboardinghttps://www.abrasiveresource.com/Platinum-Film-Backed-Hook-and-Loop-Sanding-Discs-s/2480.htm. Lowes or Home Despot abrasives will wear out in about 3 square ft if that.

    Your productivity in sanding will be directly proportional to the quality of the abrasive you use. If you can use an Air powered sander if not Mirka and 3m do excellent sanders. The 3m sander I use actually runs of a 12v transformer. It is light powerful and will take days off sanding a boat this size and your arms won't fall off. It also has good dust extraction, better than most air sanders. This is what I use
    5 Inch Pad, 10,000 OPM, Electric Orbital 64391584 - MSC https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tnpla/64391584?cid=ppc-google-New+-+Power+Tools+-+PLA_sVL0RZUyH___164110813812_t_S&mkwid=sVL0RZUyH|dt&pcrid=164110813812&rd=k&product_id=64391584&gclid=Cj0KCQiA5NPjBRDDARIsAM9X1GKN6I8likTVRuXNoUX345hgZASAVPX2XNfJ1s1Termv6pkOfyd_EUUaAplxEALw_wcB

    Sadly the quality of your finished project will be down to how much prep you do. No top coat will do anything other than mirror the the primer. But you can I promise end up with a $25k paint job that will last and last if you are willing to use the right stuff and put in a ton of sweat equity.
     

  15. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    I have flexisander longboard tools and Mirka.

    I suppose I would prime the entire hull and then mask off the bottom? Be a bit worried about pulling paint. Be a bit tricky to paint the bottom on the bunks.

    I am going to rent an ocean container, so I could spray I suppose. And I have a big 60 gallon fast recovery compressor. Just not too experienced....

    I appreciate the advice and apologize for hijacking here.

    Perhaps we can take this up on our private conversation Richard. Thanks.
     
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