snatch clutch?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by seandepagnier, Jan 24, 2022.

  1. seandepagnier
    Joined: Oct 2020
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    seandepagnier Senior Member

    I currently am trying to eliminate friction as well as reduce effort to raise the sails. The halyard is internal exiting at the base of the mast, but then it leads through another block, then a clutch, then the winch.

    It is difficult to pull the halyard because it must always live in this clutch so I cannot stand at the base of the mast and pull the sail most of the way up, then drop it in the clutch and winch a few turns as I envision, instead I have to pull horizontally through the clutch where I have much less physical strength.

    A cam cleat would work but cannot release under tensions easily enough. What kind of clutch can I use or make? Do not need a cam action (can still tighten when locked), it is ok to just lock the rope and unlock it. I need to share the winch for multiple halyards.
     
  2. Blueknarr
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    Blueknarr Senior Member

    There are cleats especially designed for your application. They are mounted on the mast slightly off of the line's taught position. Additional tension supplied by the winch pulls the line out of the cleat.
     
  3. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

  4. seandepagnier
    Joined: Oct 2020
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    seandepagnier Senior Member

    The closest to what I am looking for is a jam cleat. My concern with those is that the line can pop out. Otherwise, why would anyone use the rope clutch with the lever when these are cheaper and simpler and don't require the rope to live in the clutch?

    Perhaps I should give it a try and ensure the jam cleat is for the right size line, and if it's an issue devise some kind of locking system (flips down to keep pressure on the line.

    I like the idea of mounting it so that pulling with the winch pulls it out, but what would keep it in the cleat to begin with? Any picture or better description of this? Is this a jam cleat on the mast?
     
  5. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    It's impossible to say something meaningfull without pictures of the actual setup and at least some basic dimensions.
    No jam cleat will hold a halyard on anything but a dinghy. If you have space between halyard mast exit and the block you can pull sideways to raise the sail.
    For friction reduction clean the track, replace slides with something better, use ballbearing blocks, etc. There are several designs of clutches and jammers, but any one of those should be free running when open. Maybe you need a bigger two speed winch and don't pull by hand at all, just winch it up.
     
  6. Blueknarr
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    Blueknarr Senior Member

    When positioned correctly, the loaded line pulls itself into jam cleats.

    Most cleats only hold lines tensioned by hand. Less than 50lb of pull.. clutches are designed to hold lines with hundreds of pounds of tension.

    Reality is that you still need someone to tail at the winch while jumping at the mast. A pile of halyard at the mast base often fouls before being pulled to the winch.
     
  7. seandepagnier
    Joined: Oct 2020
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    seandepagnier Senior Member

    Thanks for the feedback, and confirming the jam cleat will not be sufficient, as I figured the line would slip or at least will be difficult to hold the tension.

    I do not have someone else to tail a winch or anything. The halyards exit at the very bottom of the mast where there are sheaves similar to what is at the top of the mast.

    I should be able to raise the sail without a winch. Currently it's a problem because the halyard goes through a clutch on the deck as it leads back to the cockpit. This means I have to pull horizontally and have maybe half the strength. I tried pulling directly from the base of the mast before the clutch it works much better. I can raise the sail except the last ft or so very quickly this way. I dont have nearly the same strength pulling the halyard horizontally along the deck and I dont understand why people run halyards back to the cockpit when it would be faster and easier to go up to the mast and raise the sail, then go back to the cockpit compared to a struggle winching the sail most of the way up.

    I just want to use the winch to add tension raising the last few inches of sail. I expect to be able to raise the mainsail in 5-10 seconds from the anchor dragging, as this got me out of many bad situations.. if it takes too long to raise sail the boat can end up in a bad place, like the rocks. The last time I had to throw a second anchor just to give me time as I have to raise the sail either way to get back to where I was, so dealing with a second anchor is obviously more work.

    I see how other boats do this, it is the same as how it is currently setup, I tried to explain why it's not good for me. A lot of people sail just using the headsails. I see this all the time... why? probably because I would find this exact same problem on many other boats and be completely frustrated that the main sail took more than 5 seconds to raise.

    I want a clutch that the halyard can come out of, like a snatch block, so this is what I am thinking of a "snatch clutch". The jam cleat would probably if only it could hold the tension. Can I make something similar to a jam cleat where both sides open with a lever, and the lever can close and clamp down on the line?

    What kinds of levers can I make that clamps down on the rope? I am interested in different designs or ideas for this.

    What about a cam cleat with a lever to allow me to release it under tension? Maybe if the cams are extra large? What other options for something I can make that will lock and hold a line, but not require it to live in the clutch?
     
  8. Blueknarr
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    Blueknarr Senior Member

    Some think it is safer in cockpit.
    Some are foolish.

    Is your current couch accessible from the cockpit?

    If not very bad set up indeed.
    You could still add cheek cleat that is pulled out with witching. It will hold hand pulled lines. A 30^ angle of attack should keep the line secure.

    Next option would be to have the halyard exit the mast about 7ft up and have a dedicated winch on the mast.
     

  9. tlouth7
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    tlouth7 Senior Member

    Even if you had a magical snatch clutch you would still have a problem with the turning block near the base of the mast. Perhaps what you need is a long length of bungee which pulls the tail of the halyard through the clutch as you hoist? Another technique used by dinghy sailors is to stream the tail behind the boat as this pulls it straight. There are of course risks with this approach if you own a propeller.

    Or you could address why you are so much weaker pulling the halyard horizontally in the cockpit? I would rate myself to pull horizontally faster and almost as hard as pulling directly upwards as you must do at the mast.
     
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