Small Tri's under 20', any mention of foils is banned..

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by waynemarlow, Jan 13, 2015.

  1. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

  2. rapscallion
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    rapscallion Senior Member

    The drifter 17 and scarab 18 are 2 designs that I know of that may fit the dual purpose bill.

    I would have to agree on the notion that people look for different attributes in boats of this size. Although Russel's trinado sure seems to tick all of the boxes for me, as do Richard's strike designs. Admittedly. I'm more interested in "comfortable" (I realize that is a relative term) racing rather than cruising.
     
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

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    Not true if lifting ***** were used! You can't get too wide unless you don't use the modern technology that is available to make square or over square possible safely. Going that wide with a seahugger is ,as you say, a potential disaster.
     
  4. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    It comes down to a question I asked at the beginning of this thread. "Which is the more successful boat, the F16 or the Dart 18?"

    Obviously the F16 is faster, but how many do you race against, is it more or less than the 200 Darts in their heyday? And who had more fun racing? If you have a (UK) national fleet of say 20 boats maybe 10 will race at any one event. A couple of years later one gets married, one moves house, one buys another boat... and you end up with 7 boats racing. Not enough for a viable class.

    Obviously the F16 is technically more challenging to design/build/sail but that doesn't make it more appealing to a mass market, nor indeed mean it is a more "successful" boat

    Getting the balance right is tricky. You need to sell a lot of boats to get good racing. That might mean careful rule writing so that boats from different manufacturers race on equal terms, or it might be OD, but as I said before the multihull market is too small for that right now.

    The alternative is to reduce the emphasis on speed and make the boats more family oriented, so they appeal to a bigger market and this more boats are sold and thus more boats race. Just like the Dart 18, Hobie or Mirror, Enterprise dinghies, Hunter (UK) boats etc

    Of course if you want to just burn round the bay like a sailing jetski then that's different

    RW
     
  5. waynemarlow
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    waynemarlow Senior Member

    Doug, can we stick to the brief of no f**** please, that subject belongs in the other thread. Lets just talk basic practical fun sea hugging Tri's of less than 20 ft.:(
     
  6. waynemarlow
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    waynemarlow Senior Member

    Richard that is a poor comparison. Times have changed and you would never get 200 F18's on a National start line let alone F16's in 2015. Now a days you struggle to see 10 mixed cats on an average club start line, that just how low the numbers are.

    People want instant bang for bucks and to have to turn up early, rig a boat, race it for say 3 hours, derig it and then change and shower, thats about 3 hours more than most peoples attentions spans. Its a very different world out there than even say 15 years ago ( before I started racing ).
     
  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

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    You made a statement about the beam of tri's that wasn't true-I won't let that go by. And I didn't mention *****. Hell, I even partially agreed with you.....
     
  8. Doug Lord
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    Apparently the Germans will have 200 F18's see http://www.catsailingnews.com/
    scoll down.
     
  9. waynemarlow
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    waynemarlow Senior Member

    Seem to remember the above.

    Yes the F18's will get well over 200 and the A's whilst in Europe as well but that's just 2 events in years of fleet building and the unique occasion of holding a class worlds in Europe. The other more mundane events just don't get the numbers anymore, certainly at the events I attend if you get 20 F18's you are at a big event. Oddly the combined Dart fleet are the biggest numbers but I put that down to OD holding the interest of the skippers.

    Still if we could get 30 20 foot Tri's at a meet, I would be totally esctatic and you would see the T20 class grow to good numbers.
     
  10. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Wayne, did you quote the wrong post?
     
  11. rapscallion
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    rapscallion Senior Member

    Richard is right. A design has to have a wider appeal than just racing in order to develop numbers. I have no idea how many windriders were sold, but I bet it is more than all of the multi 23s, Diam 24s, seacart 26s combined and then some.

    The best that one could hope for is a lively performer that also happens to be family friendly, cost effective and easy to own.

    I think the L7 fits the bill, and if something like the scarab 18 could be built light and use a tornado rig that would be good for a class.
     
  12. R.Finn
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    R.Finn Junior Member

    It may be mentioned somewhere, but is this concept for a box rule or a one design? A racer with camp-ability have more appeal to people with young families, and not all events would have to be pure racing events. There are other elements beyond speed that can add to the fun factor. That's just my opinion, and I'm enjoying watching this concept evolve.
     
  13. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    Neither, it's all just talk at this stage

    RW
     
  14. waynemarlow
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    waynemarlow Senior Member

    Its intersting that probably the most successful multi hull class in the 8 metre range is the New Zealand 8.5m box rule and that dictates a cabin and a porta loo fitted. Within that 8.5m rule is a number of variations and handicap levels.

    I think a good 20 footer with cabin and loo would fit into the rule nicely and still remain a play toy for day sailing at probably half the cost of its big brothers, it would be a nice entry into multihull racing.
     

  15. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    If you are going to have a cabin then why not the micro class at under 8m, lots of existing boats - Dragonflies, Firebird, Strider. At under 20ft you cannot, for example, do the RtheI race. And a cabinned trimaran under 20ft won't have the performance you want

    RW
     
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