Small trailerable cruising cats... biggest flaw?

Could you comment on details of the boat? How would it be for coastal cruising? Is it rightable from capsize? What is the loading capacity before having draggy transoms or slapping the bridgedeck? Is the main set up to be reefable? How heavy is it?

Dan

 

Lighter is nearly always faster. However, it would be interesting to see a boat that's 20'x8'6" with a bit of water ballast. I'm doing most of that with my double Tamanu build. However, it won't have water ballast. I think it would be interesting to have the footwells filled with water ballast below, have a flapper valve or something that would allow the water to dump out of it's own accord when flipped 90 degrees, and allow easier righting by not having to pull that excess weight back over center. A 20' boat is pretty small and could be designed to accomodate the weight. But it won't be faster unless the lighter boat capsizes more often.

Dan

 

Dan, what do you think your double Tamanu will weigh?

 

Dan, thanks for the interest in the P cat, keep i mind that i have no actual experience with this boat as i just bought it 2 months ago and right now its under a foot of snow.
Ok,heres what i know, its 19ft x 8ft x 540lbs published DISP so i would guess you would subtract 300lbs (2x 1960s crew) to get weight ? The aft crossbeam is 4ft fwd of the transoms so that forces the crew to the mid part of the boat, i like that as it should help keep the weight centered. I read somewhere online that it will handle 4 people and still get up and go so i think a couple of people and gear for a week may work.I relly like the cockpit wells as even on my Macgregor 36 it was tiring on the legs to have them out straight too long.The wells drain through the daggerboard trunks but there is also a huge 3" drain tube running back thru the aft storage lockers to the transom.Is it rightable from a capsize? i would expect it to be as rightable as any other 19ft beachcat, so not so easy im guessing,maybe fill the mast with foam or a masthead float,maybe adopt some of the systems used on the G32. It would be easy to instal a fwd net a la the G cats which i have sailed extensivly and loved that feature(it has a full crossbeam at the bow) one could sleep there i think.The bridgedeck is pretty camberd so i may have to add some wedges to level it out to sleep on it otherwise i can see myself rolling off into the footwells. The rig is huge, 270 sq ft i think so it will definatly need serious reefing,maybe i can get a smaller main for cruising and put reef points in that or build a roller reefing/furling boom like the f boats and the G32 use,we will see.
I have a 1.2hp sears gamefisher for it,just 14lbs and stows easily in the aft locker. I will need a boom tent and perhaps a dome tent for the fwd net. In a couple of months my son and i will pull it inside and repair a hole in one hull,fill all the fastener holes in the decks and then paint it and then figure what to do with it,im excited about this cat.
Steve.

 

That's the big question. My beams have to be beefier than the stock hobie beams as I broke one during an upwind bash in 20+ knots--even in the lee of an island. My hulls are lighter than the H18 hulls, so it might be a close thing. I'm secretly hoping 400# is possible even with a hard deck.

Even as I do this boat, I'm kinda planning a version of Michael Schacht's Beach Cruiser with dory hulls and a hard deck. Shallow Water capable, rightable even solo, big enough for a cruise with 2 + gear or a big daysailing posse, looks like my vision of a "polynesian" boat without going all Wharram, etc. Not going to happen right away as I've got too many outriggers to even broach the topic with my wife.





I'd build something like that in a heartbeat--even with the v hulls which aren't so S. Florida flats friendly. Not having to mess with boards is nice even without the better pointing ability they offer. I'd also go with some footwells like Gary Dierking's Tamanu as I love the seating comfort and the self bailing aspect. Additionally, the H21SC wings might be a nice touch even though they don't quite go with the 60's CSK look.

Dan

 

Looks cool! The one I saw had a great look as well. The crown of the deck is a bit disappointing though. Should be a solvable problem though. I was thinking it might be interesting to have two panels fold out to cover the footwells and have an 8x whatever length the cockpit is area to camp on. Additionally, I thought a couple watertight bulkheads fore and aft and a big hatch like I have on my Tamanu coupled with the front tramp would make this stock design into my own custom cruiser.

Dan

 

Dan, the p cat has watertight bulkheads aft but the hatches in the aft deck are just shoebox style held down with a bungee inside so i need to make them watertight. I could put hatches fwd for storage. I like your idea of panels over the footwells.I think the bridgedeck is about 6ft fore and aft. I really like the Beach cruiser with the CSK look especially the sliding gunter rig,it would go under a lot of the bridges on the ICW just dropping the peak.I spent 3 weeks last spring camp cruising the west coast of Florida on a Egret sharpie with a gaff rig and we were just a foot to much air draft for most of the bridges and the p cat is taller still.
Steve.

 

Alternately, you could go with a synthetic forestay attachment like Slider has and just tilt the rig back a bit, motor under, & tilt it back up. You'd need some sidestays @ 90 degrees like Mike Lenemann's Beach Cruiser 22 concept to keep the rig centered though.

That trip sounds fun! How often would the reduced draft of the dory hull come in handy vs. the boardless shape of the Beachcruiser shown above?

Dan

 

I think the sharpie draws about 2ft and has a centerboard which gives a bit of advanced warning before running aground which we did often but could get out and push if needed, the Egret is about 28ft so it draws more than the beachcruiser. Years ago i had the use of a G cat 5m for a summer which had symetrical deep vee hulls with no boards and was a pretty good compromise, it also had the bow tramp which i really liked.
I will definatly looking at all the options to reduce air draft and tilting it back will probably be the go, im not going to change the mast. This boat is missing only one thing and that is the mast base so i have the opportunity to design and fab a new one to facilitate easy raising and lowering. One idea i have had is to look for a dome tent of a dimension of about 8' x 6' with doors in both long walls and make some fittings for the 4 poles to sit in on the gunwales and cut out the floor,this way i can sleep on the bridge deck or sit on the edge of my bed with feet in the footwell,and have a door to the tramp and be able to access the aft hatches. I wont really start to develop until i get it inside in febuary.
Steve.

 

Lost a reply, let's try again...

Steve, I think it's ironic that what I'm coming to view as the perfect beachcruising cat was designed in 1958 and in production by 1960! I like your thinking about what would make the PC19 a good cruiser. I wonder how a boat designed to this general idea would sell on either the homebuilding or even the production market. The PC 19 is dangerously close to what I'm looking to achieve.

• it's close to the right length
• it has a flat(ish) hard deck
• it has footwells
• the weight is concentrated amidships
• it could be used with a fairing for outboard power like the gougemaran
• with floorboards or filler panels the central section could be a big sleeping platform
• it could sport a front tramp pretty easily
• it could be rigged to reef pretty easily

If I were designing a boat like this to build myself, I'd be looking hard at Michael Schacht's Beach Cruiser CSK look and Mike Leneman's BeachCruiser22. I think I'd prefer a boat about 20-21'x8'6" with footwells and possibly hiking seats like the H21sc.

Are you thinking of modifying yours once you can get it inside?

Dan

 

Hi Dan, it remains to be seen how the boat will handle a load of 2 - 3 people and some lightweight camping gear and supplies for a week or two of gunkholing.The boat passed its initial test which was trailability behind a modest vehicle as we towed it 1400 miles including through the mountains of west virginia behind a 1996 VW Passat TDI with a quarter million miles on it and we achieved 30mpg through said mountains, down from 52mpg on the way out but none to shabby notwithstanding. Much to my surprise the proper factory made galvernized trailer was purchased new in 1996 and it shows no sign of having seen salt water so appart from rotted tires from sitting for 12yrs its perfect,i upsized from 8" to 12" galv rims and tires when i got it home.
I agree a little longer and full legal width would be great as would a little more freeboard and displacement but hey,it is what it is,now i need to optimise. I dont think we will go with the hiking seats yet,hobies are a 40lb add on on the 18. Mainly we will be doing some minor repairs,a full awlgrip job,replace all the old hardware with modern stuff,probably at least install the bolt rope track on the hulls for the fwd tramp,fab a motor mount and come up with a reefing system and in general get all the sailing systems working efficiently including righting systems so we can use it and then pick away at it over the summer.A lot of mods wont become apparent until we put some miles on it.
Steve.

 

I'm loving it. It seems like a pretty good boat for what I'm looking to do without having to start from scratch. All the stuff I listed is simply how I would like to kit out a boat like the PC 19.

Dan

 

Dan, buy that one on catsailor,its cheap and looks nice, course it adds up, i paid $305 for mine on ebay,it was sold by boatangel and they add $180 and then i drove 2700miles round trip to get it so by the time i paid for fuel and a couple of nights in a motel along the way and put new rims tires and a tongue jack on the trailer and bought a motor im into it for nearly $900 already and ive just started. There are no cheap boats i guess. When i get it inside and dried out i will weigh it and find out for sure if its heavy.
Steve.

 

I've thought about it a bit, but the 16 hour one way puts a damper on it. Less fun is telling my wife I buoght another cat. I should thin the fleet a bit first as I currently have a H18, a Ulua, a Tamanu, and adding a PC 19 would put me squarely in the doghouse. Now if I sold the H18 or the Ulua...maybe then. It does seem like it is mighty close to what I'd be looking to build, so the hours and cost of driving are paltry if I had the go ahead. My wife is wanting SUP's though at present.

Dan

 

The problem is i had actually been looking for years for one but most are on the west coast,this one,even though a long trip to get it was the closest id seen so i had to act.I was thrilled to get it. I have too many boats also but no wife to answer to.
Steve.