Small passagemaking boats

Thanks for the info, Greenseas2. Nice little motorsailers.

 

Inexpensive motorsailer

If someone wanted to build a small inexpensive motorsailer, they might ry building the Steve Redmond "Elver" It could be modifies with smaller sail, two steel plate bilge keels and a pilot house. It's already design to take a small 4 stroke outboard or a Hardy Diesel outboard. Without the centerboard, there would be sufficioent room to rearrange the interior with more utility. It would only be for coastwise travel with the possibility of the ICW and Okeechobee waterways. Might be fun.

 

Something else to look at

Might want to take a look at Selway Fisher's Teign River Gravel Barge design. Most Dutch Barges were motorsailers in the beginning. They have the advantage of carrying capability for large amounts of fuel for long distance cruising. These boats don't require a lot of power to move at a decent clip. Best of all are spacious accommodations for 6 passengers in the cabins, a salon/galley and a couple of heads in the space forward of the pilothouse. Behind the pilothouse are crew quartyers. The Dutch barge pilothouse is a greenhouse affair with large windows all around to enjoy the view. It would be quite possible to put a rather short sail on a Dutch Barge to help with the mileage when going downwind. Just thoughts.

 

Interesting idea, although I find barges only good for downwind sailing. More a kind of sails asisted motorboat than a motorsailer.
It has been said that a motorsailer is everything with an engine and sails, and even with oars and an umbrella , and the like. Narrowing the definition, I find a proper motorsailer should be able to do both things in an effective way, motor and sail, as posted in another thread.

 

Ever thought of motorsailer in small chinese junk?

 

Trade off's

The idea of motorsailers in any form is one of concessions where efficiency in one form is traded off for efficiency in another. There isn't a motorsailer made that is a really efficent sailer, neither is it a high speed motor boat. The principle idea behind motorsailers is taking your time and going longer distances more economically and enjoying that mode of transportation to the max. Anyone who tries to get the highest efficient out of a combination of sail and motor will never own a motorsailer as he/she will be driving themselves crazy trying to male improvement that are most difficult/impossible to do. The British and Nordics who probably have the most experience in designing and buildiong motorsailers have been successful in only making the deck and deckhouse look streamlined. They don't go any faster or further than those made 30 years ago. Take a look at the MacGregor Fast Sailers and the number of relatively new models already on the market. It's design flop. This speaks of customer dissatifaction with the product.

 

Fred. I may stop over on the way to Fort Meyers and take a look at the motorsailer.

 

This is not the right thread, but I disagree with you. They go faster motoring (less height and a bigger LWL for the same LOA) and a lot faster sailing, so fast that it is difficult to say if it is a deck house sailing boat or a Motorsailor (you have to look at the size of the engine to know).

On topic now, about small passagemaking boats (and they don’t have to be motorsailors), there are still some (very few) in the market (new boats), but they are heavy for its size (they have to be) and very expensive. So expensive that for the same money you can buy a boat a lot bigger, a boat that is as seaworthy as the small one and much faster, offering more interior space. So, I guess that it is a species in extinction.

 

"There isn't a motorsailer made that is a really efficent sailer, neither is it a high speed motor boat."

True but a quite efficent DISPLACEMENT motor boat is not very hard to do.

The 90/90 concept means the ONLY sail losses from "pure" sail is the WEIGHT of the engine , fuel , batteries , tools spairs ect carried aboard.

Since there is usually an auxilary of some type on most cruisers to provide electric for lights and creature comforts like a fridge , it is not a big deal.
To reduce the DRAG of a propellor only requires good design or Money.

With "good design" the prop will be a 2 blade of large diameter and with enough surface area to propell the boat in heavy winds.
Hidden behing the deadwood and locked the prop drag is minimal.
"Money" gets an exposed feathering prop that sometimes can have the pitch changed underway.

Either way the only detriment under SAIL is the extra weight.

AS a displacement motor boat , the usual cruise speeds will be lower than the top speed under sail.

Frequently the sq rt of the lwl times 1.15 is the accepted for LRC , and requires only a modest amount of power and low fuel consumption.

Our M/S runs 6K with minimal effort , although we cruise at 6.5 inshore burning 3/4 gph. Thats almost 10mpg , fine enough for any boat, esp considering were spinning 2 alts and a freezer compressor.

Yes, 1000 miles would require almost 100G of fuel, with the associated weight.

We chose 25G as the norm and only fill the bladder tank when gong to a place where fuel is super costly, after all she Does ! sail.

AS a motorboat the only detriment is the area of the mast and rigging that gets pushed thru the air. The sail & rig weight is minimal , and the weight aloft helps ease the ride.

You CAN have a 90/90 ,

You can't have a 100/100 , thats life.

FAST FRED

 

Surprised to find this here, very informative thread!

 

I usually run from Florida to N.J. once a year and spend a lot of time cruising the Bahamas.

Most folks take the ICW , while going south , as the Gulf Stream and predominant southerly winds make outside travel really slow.

1000NM of fuel wont do as you will probably go 1800 miles thru the water.

Perhaps a run to Bermuda , then back to FL might work, but it would be rare.

Heading north most folks gain big from the stream and southerly winds , so 1000 miles of range would not be needed , the current and sails would do .

The folks usually head in to by pass Cape Hatteras , pop out at Norfolk VA then head for NJ , NYC or Montauk if heading to Maine.

FF

 

I know this is an old thread and you probably have made your selection but look up the Bayside 29, I was the guy in Nova Scotia who along with Carl's designing developed this very pratical, easy to build boat. While i did not end up building the design (customer changed his mind) I,ve always admired it and maybe some day will do so on spec. Geo.

 

As a intercoastal type "passagemaker" the longest range required I have found is just over 400 miles on the lower Mississippi, 500 for reserves. I have been low a few times on fuel and found small marinas closed.

I hope this idea proceeds as this is really what I'd like as well, but I'm kinda caught up with a catamaran under 30'. Actually 24 to 27 would be ideal but standing headroom off the deck would look pretty strange I would think.

A displacement cat would be great, small power requirement, primarily down wind sailing and foldable for the roads. Richard's Skoota is a good one and so is Slider with a cabin. There should be some way of unfloding a cabin to cover the hulls to provide ingress/egress from the hull amenities.

Don't you get more usable room in a cat than a mono/trawler? Seems a cat would make a better inland passagemaker with less draft for the rivers and being beachable. Seems if you could get 40" at 10 or 12 feet in the hulls that would be livable, fat hulls may not be efficient, but does anyone think such a trade off would be acceptable?



THREAD KILLER?

 

Load carrying would be severely affected on a small cat, but if a carton of beer, a 25 litre water container and a pile of canned tuna, baked beans, spices, rice and fresh fish and crabs caught on the way is your idea of fun then they can work fine for coastal and inter-coastal.
At least it did for me on a seawind 24

 

So how about this ? After viewing these are hard to read so I will post without compression on next two or three posts--Geo.