small, long-range boat design

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by allwet, Jun 5, 2014.

  1. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Petros Senior Member

    why take a boat at all than? flying commercial aircraft is the most efficient and cost effective way to travel. for distance traveled it is even less costly than walking or riding a bike. Compare expensive food calories burned per mile vs. tiny amount of jet fuel burned person per mile. Plus you arrive at your designation in hours, rather than many days or weeks worth of living expense in a slow small boat. Do not fool yourself into thinking you are being efficient by traveling slowing in any small boat.

    Sailing is a sport or recreation, there is no other useful justification for it. All other small boats are the same, they serve no useful purpose other than sport or recreation. You would use up less energy to stay on your couch and see the world through your computer screen.

    So just accept that building the boat, and using the boat, any boat (other than a cargo ship) is just consuming materials and energy for your own amusement and recreation.
     
  2. wavepropulsion
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    wavepropulsion Pirate Member

    Thanks.

    Happy to talk with people as Petros and Rwatson. Much time I checked this forum and their opinions as a way to learn.Some with others in this thread and web site in general.
    I defend the boat as a way of life, I was living three to four years in that small boat with my fox terrier. I avoid to pay rent, power and other services and taxes, also I was travelling as a sea gipsy and working in different places fixing or painting boats. Once I catched 800 euros in octopus in two hours.
    When I saved a few bucks I put hundred liters of petrol in the cockpit -a bomb- and went to the south. I intended to reach Canarys and I was going well but then having a crash with the costumers launch and a burocratic problem. After six months waiting for my passport back I left the boat. I think I was able to cross the Atlantic in that boat, mainly because in Canary I haved the promise of work in a boatyard and the opportunity to improve the boat.
    So I agree, powerboating is an sport as can be sailing, different matters or specializations. But for me is freedom and cause this I like another boat.
     
  3. wavepropulsion
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    wavepropulsion Pirate Member

    Sail seems to be the way to go, as people have been doing for millennia.

    Just downwind.
     
  4. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    A few years ago (probably more than 10) I saw an interesting boat at our town dock. It looked like a kayak on steroids and was probably 18 to 20 feet LOA although I have no accurate measure.. According to the skipper, it had crossed the Atlantic under outboard power only. The engine was 2hp and he had a spare aboard which had never been needed. This boat was smaller than many on this thread think of as a possible ocean crossing vessel. How much fuel and food/water he carried is not known.

    Anyone else know of this voyage?

    Of course, more recently, there is this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy4xHRFyliA

    Many things are possible and Steve Callahan crossed the Atlantic in a rubber dinghy with essentially no supplies.
     
  5. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    Some of the older small diesels were more economical in fuel use because they turned slower, but they are heavier than modern high speed diesels. Which would cut down your fuel load.
    have you considered solar?
     
  6. wavepropulsion
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    wavepropulsion Pirate Member

    On April 30, 1995, Seiko Nakajima in his 21ft boat and a 2.5hp Tohatsu outboard motor arrived at the historic South Street Seaport in New York City, concluding an eight-month voyage from Switzerland. He was one of my inspirational referents. A few pictures can be found searching in Google.
    The boat was yellow colour and all decked, the engine central mounted with one spare and another one in the stern for maniobrating. He was using something as a fin or skeg in the bow as in japanese tradition. I think he was 69 years old at that time.
    A diesel engine can be reduced in rpm according the speed and the propeller designed propperly. A variable pitch propeller is something out of my knowledge, but I suppose can be more efficient but also very expensive.
     
  7. wavepropulsion
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    wavepropulsion Pirate Member

    In next years if lucky we can see improvements in solar and also salt water batteryes. Electricity needs a bit more of development to be practical and-or cheap.
     
  8. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    Yes that was the guy I met here in Oriental. I was not able to dig up any info from google but will try again since you know his name and date of the voyage.

    Here is more info: http://www.tohatsu.com/news/seiko.html

    I think this is a benchmark for what is possible with a powerboat.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2014
  9. wavepropulsion
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    wavepropulsion Pirate Member

    Tom, the same question of all beginners here. Tell me how to post pictures, I got a couple in my facebook.
    About the american veterans in the 22 foot flats, I think they looks more like doing a war operation than sailing. Quite amazing, are a video in Youtube catching them into a storm in north waters from helicopter.
     
  10. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    I think it unlikely that most here would find any powerboat less likely to survive a full Atlantic trip than the one featured. Who would choose such a boat to go to sea in? I am amazed that they made it in substantially good order.
     
  11. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    I think there is a big difference between "Yes, it can be done in that..." and "This is the smart way to do it..." Experience is what you get when you don't get what you thought you wanted.
     
  12. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    All true, of course, but I think all similar endeavors are touched with a bit of unrealistic approach. Still, some of our expert opinions are proven less that absolute by both of these ventures that were successful, even if we think they are a bit off the wall. Base junping, free climbing of El Capitain, wing suit flying, skiing downhill off big mountains may all be crazy in out opinion but many people still do them.
     
  13. eyschulman
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    eyschulman Senior Member

    stunt vs practical

    I think when we talk crossing oceans in very small motor boats we are in the realm of a stunt rather than practical. Yes it is possible for a motorcycle to jump X # of cars and there are enough people who will do that not much different than crossing an ocean with a mini boat. So we are back to the question asked earlier by one poster why? If you mean it to be a practical situation the answer is most likely no go bigger. If you mean it to be a stunt just make sure you have a good ramp and attain the proper speed before you take off.
     
  14. wavepropulsion
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    wavepropulsion Pirate Member

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcxzB1HPsmQ

    Al Grover intended to be the first in using an outboard to cross the Atlantic. He used most of the time the 9.9 hp kickup and did a cross harder than the way Canary-Caribbean. And Seiko intended to set the reckord for the smaller outboard, he don't did the return travel and the boat remains somewhere in a museum -Grover did the same-. The veterans like to set the reckord for the smaller powerboat and they like to show that flatsboat is seaworthy (they went continent-Greenland- etc) cause the sponsorship.
    When the people like to set reckords they do extreme nonsense sometimes as a challenge and depends of sponsors. But sometimes they help to improve technology and open new choices to improve their ideas.
    I will apply to the world reckord in eating chocolate, the only challenge affordable to me.
     

  15. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Slightly more palatable is the Sunrider circumnavigation in 1995, a 24' Zodiac running on biodiesel.

    http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/articles/118/around-the-world-on-biodiesel

    Nuts and water? Nothing to read? .....For 27 days?.....Oh boy, that sounds fun. For a given payload and power longer will always be faster(average) and thus reduce the total required fuel....so why go short?

    Yanmar Endevor was 40' and crossed the Pacific at about 15 knots using a pair of 25 HP diesel outboards.

    Actually a proa could be even lighter and more efficient.
     
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