skin on frame kayak, first time, many mistakes to learn from

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by yoram, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. yoram
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 120
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 14
    Location: denmark

    yoram Senior Member

    the kayak when the stitching work was done. we used staples to connect the skin to the coam. the coam all together is made of 2 parts. the one that is part of the frame and it is covered by the skin and the second part which is build by 2 pieces. one which is wider and is the top one and one which is identical (or should be identical but in this kayak it is not that well cut) to the piece which is part of the frame. aochhhhh... when i read this, even i can't understand it so well but it is the best i can do right now. hope the photos will clear it.
    anyway the second part is connected to the part on the frame.
    what i did wrong: beside poor work on cutting the coam, when we stapled the skin to the coam, we pulled it too tight and the frame got banded too much.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. yoram
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 120
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 14
    Location: denmark

    yoram Senior Member

    some photos did not upload. i will try again.

    since we stretched the skin a lot on the coam, it banded a bit so i needed to use clamps to fix the outer coam to the inner coam and then used screws to connect them together.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. yoram
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 120
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 14
    Location: denmark

    yoram Senior Member

    more photos

    here are some more photos
     

    Attached Files:

  4. yoram
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 120
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 14
    Location: denmark

    yoram Senior Member

    and another thing to add here about the coam is the need to make the joint between the upper coam and the bottom one water tight. since there is polyester and staples and in 2 places the stitches are there between them so water could leak in.
    i will use something that we have here. it is an acrylic paste that when dried it becomes water resistant and paint oil paint on top. i will use it from the inside, it is easier to apply and hidden. i should have made 2 grooves in the coam to fit the stitches, but i did not. next time...

    Btw, ancient kayaker, you are right about the carpenters’ glue and of course epoxy is better. (to your question, I used real epoxy mixed that I mixed with corn flour for the putty) . I just remember that in my place in Israel, I glued with carpenters’ glue a frame that was just laying there in the garden for more then 10 years, got a lot of abuse by rain and the strong Israeli sun. the wood is partly rot (it is bare wood, not painted) but still glued tight together. I am saying all that knowing still that it is the wrong glue for boats and your comment was necessary and in place.
     
  5. BATAAN
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 1,614
    Likes: 99, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1151
    Location: USA

    BATAAN Senior Member

    Yoram, the 15 meter boat sounds very interesting. Is the builder supported by a museum in his work? Personally I believe that soft boats like the picture were used much longer than we have records of, and were instrumental in the peopling of the ancient north.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
    Posts: 3,497
    Likes: 147, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 2291
    Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada

    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    For interest: on the subject of Greenland and Inuit skin boats, most of them are tucked away out of reach in museums, and neglected to a heartbreaking degree with the skins shrinking and splitting in dry air and never getting their regular dressing of oil. Even when one can get close it is hard to learn much from these relics.

    However, I had an opportunity to examine one in good condition, close up. The way the skins were sewn was awesome, I would not have thought it possible if I hadn't been able to get close. I would like to have used a magnifying glass to see the detail, the stitching was so exquisite.

    It took me a while to figure out, but the skin has been split, a row of stitches put into the lower layer then the top flap was folded over and a second row of stitches put in, slightly to one side of the first. I don't know if a sealant of some kind was used, but it looked like a perfect watertight seam all the way. Not possible with our modern woven fabrics of course, and the patience, effort and level of skill to split and sew like that is mind-blowing.

    Later I found the boat I had examined was built in the 60's; it was in a barn, and I tried to get it sent to the Canadian Canoe Museum who have the expertise and motivation to preserve and display it but I don't know if anything was done.
     
  7. peterchech
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 241
    Likes: 9, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 127
    Location: new jersey

    peterchech Senior Member

    Yoram you are becoming quite a craftsman! I am greatly impressed. Keep it up, I can't wait to see the finished result!
     
  8. yoram
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 120
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 14
    Location: denmark

    yoram Senior Member

    about the long sof boat that is being built is actually a 1/4 length of a different one that was built 2 years ago. it was a bit of a fiasco because they had a dead line and the boat went into the water before the paint was dry so it started to take water in. not a lot but enough for it to become very difficult to paddle. the thing with those long sof boats is that they are not stiff as other boats so they are almost taking the shape of the waves they ride on.
    the guy told me, after spending time with the Inuits, in Greenland and in Alaska, that they all prefer the plastic canoe with an outboard. the art of stitching and building the traditional canoes and kayaks is probably lost.
    i might go to work with him tomorrow and i will ask his permission to take photos and post them here. he has many sof kayaks, what left from the boat he built 2 years ago and other goodies that deserve a photo. i really enjoy going to work with him on volunteer basis and i learn a lot. he is a very sweet and gentle guy and kayaking and living in nature is part of his way of life and i like that. he just came from a 10 days vacation in which he paddled with his son around one of the island here and camping out. he doesn't even want to hear the words polyester or epoxy...
    anyways, we tried the sof kayak that we just finish building. the job is not totally finish. my gf promised to decorate it but she is waiting for the right inspiration. but when it is done, i am sure it will be great like all her works (and i am not saying that just because i am afraid of her...)
    i will post the photos of the kayak in the water later.
     
  9. yoram
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 120
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 14
    Location: denmark

    yoram Senior Member

    thanks peter. i wish it was true and it is not false modesty here. i saw all kinds of work other people are doing and there is nothing to compare, but i learn as i work.
     
  10. yoram
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 120
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 14
    Location: denmark

    yoram Senior Member

    they are a group of volunteers who are interested in doing that and the museum is not supporting that. i think the materials are wood, threads, the linen cloth and probably some screws here and there. the wood comes from the forest, logs that the guy chops so you can say it is almost free and the skin, well he order a lot of it since he gives courses in building sof kayaks. so it costs but it is part of his business so probably not too much. maybe there are some donations for that and the work force is volunteers.

    yes they were used much before we have records since it is almost a replica of the bronze age (from 2200 BC to 750 BC) boat that was found in Denmark in archaeological excavation.
     

  11. yoram
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 120
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 14
    Location: denmark

    yoram Senior Member

    here are some photos from today when we tried the kayak. my GF has a happy face after trying kayaking for the first time. she had a very good balance. real talent for first timer hence the happy face.
    the kayak was going really well though it felt a bit unbalanced for me. like the front was a bit to up and i should sit more forward. the way it seems when my GF was paddling that it was balanced well for her but maybe it is because we have 30 Kg difference between us.
     

    Attached Files:

    alan craig likes this.
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.