Single Speed Optimization, Design, without pc, in towing tank to Herreshoff

Discussion in 'Hydrodynamics and Aerodynamics' started by mtumut, Oct 26, 2016.

  1. mtumut
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    mtumut Junior Member

    Do you know Luigi Colani ? If you dont , google him , he is the most futuristic organic designer of the world. I have just spent 10 years to solve how a computer does what he does on drawing board. He is aerodynamicist also and knows the stuff.

    I found a paper where resistance simulated on ship designs and than ship optimized to single speed or three speeds.

    single speed designs wild sexy but three speed designs are dull and ugly.

    Now , as paper indicated , this is a game and result cant be precise , because of computer nature and nature.

    Now the big question , we have a herreshoff design and we want to optimize with towing tank and paper precisely to sexy single speed.

    how to do this ?

    Umut
     
  2. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    mtumut, frankly I do not understand anything of what you say but, as I would not like to be 10 years trying to understand, why you do not explain your tesis with a language for beginners?
    But my friend, what a waste of time!. Why have you not asked an expert in the field?. However, the satisfaction of having discovered it for yourself is not paid with money.
     
  3. mtumut
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    mtumut Junior Member

    Lets go,

    when you optimize a ships resistance to only single ship speed , resulting optimized hull would have lots of curves , 3d surfaces. I found this beatiful.

    how to do the same in to one hull with the help of towing tank and without a computer ?

    thanks,

    umut
     
  4. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I'm sorry I do not understand it. What curves do you mean?
    Have you in mind one thing, with the number of variables, parameters and data handled in a towing tank, hand analyze the results may be more work than a human could endure. And if you limit yourself to control a few variables, the result will not worth.
     
  5. mtumut
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    mtumut Junior Member

    hull been distorted like an gaudi building , you are from spain. look at german architecture and gaudi architecture

    how old timers were optimizing the hull SHAPE by hand ? how can we optimize the hull by hand calculation ? there must be easy way .
     
  6. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I love German architecture, Bauhaus and modern, and Gaudi's architecture but by far the study is impossible for them to teach me how does the hull of a ship in relation to the sea.
    I think this conversation is pointless. Good luck with your project. BR.
     
  7. mtumut
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    mtumut Junior Member

    Thank you for your wish, Good night.

    I am not a artist but I am seeing art , aesthetics , expressionism , beauty with single speed optimized hull. Like a woman body or whatever.

    Now I have a towing tank , I dont know how to code a computer and there is knowledge from old timers who can - may be they cant , I dont know- optimize a hull by hand in to single speed optimized hull.

    I am looking for that. If I had drawing talent, may be I would go for it but I dont.

    Umut
     
  8. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Single speed, single loading, single sea state, single-minded madness ! Forget the architecture, give me the ugly boat that does the job well, over the pretty one that does not, though functional boats do tend to the handsome, generally speaking.
     
  9. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    "20yrs ahead of the rest"?

    more like "2000yrs behind the rest" IMO.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/22/tech/luigi-colani-design/

    He is all about some Cult of Personality, not what works in the real world.

    Maybe he could team up with this wizard.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Holmes


    IIRC, big shipping is already pretty much "single speed, single loading, single sea state", and big ships will do whatever it takes to stay in their design "comfort zone" of RPMs/knots because their props only get their 90% efficiency when everything (drought, engine RPMs, Prop RPMs, hull speed) are within very narrow limits.

    Makes more sense to hull 20,000 tons of ballast seawater across the ocean if you need it to keep at 90% efficiency, rather that dropping to 50% and being 30% lighter.

    IIRC the Wright Bros home made props were very efficenct, but only at a very narrow rpm,airspeed range.
     
  10. mtumut
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    mtumut Junior Member

    Thank you for your answers.

    I am sorry , you did not like colani. But may be others would like him.

    I want to design to myself a long series of designs as colani did.

    I read somewhere old softwares are able to design in to a very narrow comfort zone. I dont know why that paper - I will post later today - produced such a expressionist designs with single speed optimization while others does the same ?

    By the way , I am still asking hand calculation method for single goal optimized design. How old timers were doing ?
     
  11. mtumut
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    mtumut Junior Member

    Here is the paper for single speed optimization and resulting you say strange I say beatiful designs.

    I want to know the difference between other algorithms , softwares , ship designs which optimized similar way.

    Why that differs at the hull shapes ?

    Umut
     

    Attached Files:

  12. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    The calculation procedures have not changed much (I know, of course, that computers have brought sophisticated methods which were previously unknown or unworkable). Many modern programs use the same methods that were used by hand, so it's enough that you study and understand traditional methods.
    As you, by hand, will not perform sophisticated calculations, because it would be an immense woork and conducive to miscalculations, you only need to read and understand the old methods.
     
  13. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Except for occasional flashes of genius (mostly driven by military, commercial or racing competitions and confrontations), they did the same way modern genetic algorithms are doing - by trial and error method via small modifications of existing designs.
     
  14. mtumut
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    mtumut Junior Member

    If I would want from herreshoff to build a boat to me single speed optimized and strange look shape , what would he do ? I wanted him to prove the final design at a tank test , which book , paper he would use ?

    What is the book article name for optimization by hand ?

    Or would he draw strange shapes , make a wood model and correct at the tank by trial error ?


    Thank you ,
    Umut
     

  15. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Indeed, most of the models tested in a towing tank must be changed, not by a strict process of trial and error, but by studying the results, analyzing, and figuring out where improvements should be addressed.
     
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