Single inboard hulls that surf well - 24-27 ft range

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by fishingbill, Mar 2, 2021.

  1. fishingbill
    Joined: Mar 2021
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    fishingbill Junior Member

    I live in SoCal. In the summer, we typically experience calm winds in the Am but afternoon winds that can get to be 25 kts or more. Wind driven waves are steep and whitecaps can be 6 - 8 or more. I fish offshore and there are times when we have to surf these waves back home. Other times we quarter into them.

    My last boat was a 28 Topaz. It wasn't the best head sea boat but it surfed really well. We could travel 20 kts (or more) with the auto pilot on sitting in the tower with a beer in hand and the boat never bow steered or leaned over.

    I also owned a 26 Blackman, which was a great head sea boat but that boat bow steered so much it was scary even in 3 ft quartering swells.

    I'm in the market for another boat. Has to be single inboard diesel powered and I want a boat that had a factory tower.

    Topaz makes a 24 that fits this criteria but I've never been on one. With the weight of a diesel in it, I suspect it would be bow heavy and might not surf very well.

    Can anyone recommend a boat in the 24 - 27 ft range. I want it to be trailerable so I can tow it.
     
  2. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Welcome to the Forum Bill.

    Have you considered the many advantages of a powercat instead of a monohull?
    Although I appreciate that it would be difficult to find a 25' power cat with inboard diesels.
    However twin outboard motors on a powercat can still be fairly fuel efficient relatively.
     
  3. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    24 feet seems a bit small for a tower, on a trailable width, and small too, for a diesel. What was the Topaz 28, 10 feet beam ? The Blackman 26 appears to be 8'6, and pretty flat aft, which might explain the down-sea handling. Typically, you'd have to be leery of any 8'6 beam boat with a flybridge, or I would be, anyway. At the very least, I'd want a boat with a bit more chine width than a typical 8'6 beam boat, plus have it carried well forward, to a full bow, the deadrise angle can't be too great with a diesel, 15 degrees seems about right . Your cruise speed is 20 knots tops, so you want a boat that is planing cleanly at that speed, with room to back off to 15 knots when running more up-sea, without falling off plane. The extra chine width would help there too.
     
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  4. fishingbill
    Joined: Mar 2021
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    fishingbill Junior Member

    Cats actually don't work well in the sea conditions we have (one hull on one wave while the other hull is on a different wave). I spend a lot of time trolling for billfish and tuna. outboard engines and sterndrives make a very poor wake for this type of fishing. Inboard and straight shaft are the only drive trains I will consider. Thanks for your comments.
     
  5. fishingbill
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    fishingbill Junior Member

    The Topaz 24 was designed with a tower in mind (at least I think it was since a lot of them were sold with them factory installed). Diesel was an option back then but started with 135 hp, then 155, 165 and 200. For the diesel boats, they installed a large chunk of lead in the rear corner.

    Yes, the 28 topaz has a 10.5 beam and had around 15 degree dead rise at the transom. The blackman had a 8'6" beam but had a very sharp bow profile and about 15 degree dead rise at the transom. I had the express model, which didn't have as much weight forward as the flybridge.

    I've heard stories of the boats with 24 degrees of dead rise, lean way over and bow steer very badly. I need a boat that rides well in steep waves but I understand all boats will lean and rock when in a beam sea.

    Here is the bow profile of the topaz. (not my boat. found it on the net) It seems like it has a big chine that is carried forward. Let me know what you think of this profile. Thanks for your comments.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Deep vee doesn't suit either diesel or flybridge in a narrowish beam trailer boat, but it does get rid of most of the terrors of "bow steer". Perhaps there is a way to modify the Blackman to at least dampen that, the obvious area being an enlarged keel and perhaps enlarged rudder, but both will wash off speed to a degree.
     
  7. fishingbill
    Joined: Mar 2021
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    fishingbill Junior Member

    I don't own the blackman any longer. They rarely come on the market, especially the few that had straight shaft inboard power. I don't think adding a keel would be a good idea from many perspectives, especially cost. The downeast style boats have keels with flat transoms and they are horrible in a following sea. It seems like wider boats might be better in these sea conditions. I prefer boats with a 15 degree dead rise, not 22 - 24 for a lot of reasons. Thanks for your comments.
     
  8. rangebowdrie
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    rangebowdrie Junior Member

    Look no further than these, decades of proven performance in running the PNW bars/inlets;
    Bartender Boats
     
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  9. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    You can't really generalize and say a wider boat is going to be better, it is going to more stable, more than likely, but is the two ends of the boat, the distribution of buoyancy, where the centre of gravity is, and most critically the position of the centre of lateral resistance, which is more or less the geometric centre of the side profile of the submerged portion of the boat, that dictates broaching behavior. You can take that CLR further back with a keel, or even two keels, well to each side of the propeller, and at least get rid of "snap" broaching. A boat with a deep forefoot, and a broad flat stern, is liable to broach, and the relationship between the COG and CLR is not that cut and dried, moving weight back in the boat, does push the CLR rearward, but also the COG, and it is largely the distance between the two that creates the potential to broach.
     
  10. fishingbill
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    fishingbill Junior Member

    That is an interesting boat. I see one for sale (29) but it's a picnic design. I don't have the time, tools, space or skills to build my own boat. I've always wanted to put some marlin or tuna lures behind a double ender. I think the wake would be very clean. Thanks for the link.
     
  11. fishingbill
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    fishingbill Junior Member

    Another boat I used to own was a Shamrock. It was only 20 ft and it had the keel. The ride characteristics of that boat was far different than any other small boat I owned. It turned flat at any speed (just slowed down a little bit). It got decent fuel economy (2 mpg at 22 kts) was very wet (some called it a submarine) but mine had a pilothouse so we were dry while everything else got wet. It was a handful in quartering down swell sea conditions. No way you could drive it with an autopilot. We sure caught a lot of fish on that little boat.

    I personally know people who brought highly talked about down easters to the west coast and sold them due to the ride characteristics. Looks like the boat I want doesn't exist. I sure miss that 28 ft Topaz hull. Thanks
     
  12. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I think the diesel inboard is a limitation, I've done plenty of trolling, but not specifically targeted at billfish, what is the characteristic that makes the inboard more desirable, in your opinion ?
     
  13. Ike
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    Ike Senior Member

    The bartender is definitely not a picnic boat. The hull is based on the classic motor surfboats that the Coast Guard and other rescue agencies have used for generations. I was never a fan of the boat as a recreational craft but it was very good at navigating treacherous inlets with bars like the Columbia River. And it doesn't have some of the nasty traits of some of the Coast Guards newer motor surfboats. Things such as bow steering and diving the bow at speed.
     
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  14. fishingbill
    Joined: Mar 2021
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    fishingbill Junior Member

    Inboard power is the best choice for fishermen, especially those who troll for big game fish. With inboard the transom is undisturbed. You can fight a big fish and there's no engine, no engine box in the way and the prop is under the boat. Outboards are the worst and stern drives right after in the undesirable category.

    As far as attracting fish, fish see a boat wake as a school of bait. They come to it looking for something to eat. It's important the fish can see the lures in the wake. Outboards and sterndrives, especially duo-props make a dirty wake that is super long, which forces the fisherman to put the lures far behind the boat where there is less turbulence.

    Diesels are the best engine because of the harmonics. 2 stroke diesels are the worst but 4 stroke diesels make a sound that fish like. I have personally seen boats with detroits that cannot raise fish in an area where it is known fish are (other boats catching fish).

    Also, boats with big dead rise hulls don't get bit as much as boats with less dead rise. I fished a lot of marlin tournaments and my shallow vee hulls with volvo diesels always caught marlin on the troll.

    my opinions based on my personal experiences.
     

  15. fishingbill
    Joined: Mar 2021
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    fishingbill Junior Member

    You might have misread my post. I didn't say 'all' bartenders are picnic boats. I said the one for sale is a picnic boat.

    It even says picnic in the ad description.

    2006 Custom 29 Bartender Picnic Boat Other for sale - YachtWorld https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2006/custom-29-bartender-picnic-boat-3703265/
     
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