Should Professionals Design Boats

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Submarine Tom, Sep 10, 2012.

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  1. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    No that's whats termed the concept, and rather than being hard it's nearly always driven by an actual need or a perceived commercial opportunity.
    The design follows a positive feasibility assessment of the concept.
     
  2. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    And should be a group decission not the choice of just one person even if he is the boss !!!:).
     
  3. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    In the history of multihulls (the craft that everyone is tuned into right now, whether they like them or not, fascination takes over - except for the hard core haters, that is) all those historically and modern designs arose originally from amateurs ... millenniums ago with proas, catamarans, double outriggers, (foil stabilized versions too) - and ALL the modern multihull examples originated from very creative thinkers, all amateurs ... the professionals came along after development had stabilized and money was thrown at them. But people like Newick, Piver, Kelsall. Crowther, Choy, Brown, Cunningham, Myers, MacAlpine-Downie, Hobie Alter, Tennant, Given, Barker, the societies like AYRS (Amateur Yacht Research Society) where you'll find every invention decades before the professionals thought of them, and various multihull groups, the list is huge, began their work as enlightened enthusiasts, amateurs - and established their directions in those early years. Sure, they refined them later and many turned professional but their original creations were from enlightened minds who could think outside the conservative box.
     
  4. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    I agree with that Barry. It seems like yacht designers just dont want do anything new --you want what!!! Oh no no no you cant do that. Finally when another designer is contacted then reluctantly with bottom lip out will they get pencil to paper.

    Further visits and fist banging are required to get what you want.

    This is how I feel.
     
  5. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "It always makes me smile when I read people suggesting that formal engineering training somehow stops innovation, the truth is the complete opposite. Nearly all modern innovation is produced by proficient professional specialized research.


    If innovation is another 3% improvement ,"proficient professional specialized research.
    " can probably provide it, for enough money, with enough time..

    Concepts that might be 100% or 1000% improvements can only come from amateurs , or far seeing really deep pockets folks like DARPA.

    In aircraft , a well engineered product ,it takes 15-20 years to accumulate a 15% improved version that can be sold to customers .

    With boats most of the improvement seems to be lighter weight construction (at boggeling cost) that does little for the non racer , or cruisier.
     
  6. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    For the first part of your rant...I want what ever you're drinking or smoking..its hot!! :p:p

    Please define "enlightened minds".

    Please define "the conservative box".
     
  7. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    No ! you walk away and dont look back !!:eek:
     
  8. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

    This is something of a fantasy to believe that society lacked any specialization prior to the current era and 'amateurs' are responsible for all prior developments.
    Modern engineers as a class are a outgrowth of that specialization.
     
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  9. FranklinRatliff

    FranklinRatliff Previous Member

  10. FranklinRatliff

    FranklinRatliff Previous Member

    There have been specialist craftsmen for millenia.
     
  11. Commuter Boats
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    Commuter Boats Commuter Boats

    From another thread
    Tad, please don't be offended, I love your work, I'm very drawn to more efficient designs then the current mainstream which seems to be " cram a floating condominium into the shortest possible stall". Your current designs appear to be more conventional ( current mainstream) than some of your earlier work which isn't to take anything away from your current work, the high mortgage cost of slender hulls makes them a tough sell and you are in the business of selling designs. I absolutely admire your passage maker series and consider your work to be outside of the mainstream, your boats are prettier and make more sense than the average that is out there.

    The quoted statement simply highlights the suggested tunnel vision that's been made reference to in this thread, few professional bridge engineers are willing to do anything except copy an existing bridge,to some extent, the same is true of most engineers.

    Of course there's an exception to every rule but it seems as if innovation is more likely to happen when the person pushing it has less to lose.

    Although I don't think of myself as having invented anything new, I have been willing to package some old ideas in a new way and have "designed" and built several boats for sale without a formal education in engineering. It would seem by this discussion that would make me negligent. I've painted the water line on 3 of my one ofs prior to launch and had them float on their lines perfectly ( probably just dumb luck right ), I also built one that came in a little over 10% overweight, although engineers have done that it is clear that I dropped the ball on that one.

    As far as what constitutes a professional, I'm sensitive to tie that title to a wage, as a volunteer, I've been rigging rescue systems for 18 years, I have formal training, I don't get paid for it, I haven't killed anybody yet, and I do call myself a professional.
    Gerald
     
  12. Lister

    Lister Previous Member

    Three possibility:
    1- You are kidding
    2- You are blind
    3- You never took a commercial flight in your life *
    I am sorry but your assessment is very inaccurate and your so-call calculations are delusional.

    Let see: If they take pilots and co-pilots without prostate they will save 2 billions dollars a day. Do you know the weight of a good size prostate?

    *I think this one is the right one
     
  13. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Ad Hoc, I read your piece on the Philippine banca where you rubbished the Kurt Hughes tourist interpretation - and was surprised that you actually admired the ancient, non-professionally designed, efficient, traditional double outrigger, also your admiration of the people who created the aesthetic boat. Seemed a contradiction somehow, meaning your disagreement with amateur designing and your belief in the superiority of professionalism. Perhaps I didn't spell it out clearly enough because that analogy (to the banca) was exactly what I was saying, the original breakthrough came from courageous amateurs.
    Although the banca (or any multihull for that matter) was the result of incremental change over Centuries (for the ancient versions), the originals came from some very bright, creative, "enlightened" persons combining actual sailing, practical experience with artistic minds; they weren't chopping kindling wood (like some professionals in their "conservative box" with delusions of being originators) but splitting logs and shaping seagoing sculpture. The originals were more works of art ... that worked.
     
  14. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Gary,

    I think this is a silly thread.

    But, do you think the Banca builders of the past were then considered "professionals" of the era? Or do you think everyone who built one just started on their own without their version of education - probably OJT with a recognized builder/ designer?
     

  15. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member


    Not kidding. I worked in the industry for over a decade, I fly commercially several times a year for a long time.

    Why do you think I am kidding? Most airlines operated at marginal profits, many loose money, why do you think they are not looking for ways to save money, even if a little?
     
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