Should Professionals Design Boats

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Submarine Tom, Sep 10, 2012.

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  1. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada

    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    - sad but true, today the money aspect is placed first and many people see nothing beyond it, but it wasn't always thus. From the 1950 version of the same dictionary -

    "profession, n. . . . vocation, calling, esp. one that involves some branch of learning or science . . . "
    1 person likes this.
  2. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    You dont see many amateur deep sea divers, or ameteur escapologists or even ameteur boxers in the ring with Tyson.

    You wont see any amateur 747 pilots or a space shuttle pilot or ameteur race horse jockeys .

    I think there must be some level of skill involved in being a professional.
  3. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    It is always about investment. The investment can be broken down into:

    1) Financial
    2) Time
    3) Resources

    All 3 are linked together.

    Since ideas about XX do not pop into someone’s mind, where they previous have no knowledge of the field/discipline to begin with! You do not get a person sitting in the bath suddenly announcing hey got this great idea, if you do XX and YY, then you can travel to the stars very easily, or hey, if you use stick XX with stick YY, brain surgey can be done, or machine XX with machine YY, we can investigate the charm and spin of quarks…and so on.

    Previous experience, of whatever form is required to have an “idea” of whatever type in a field or discipline. Unless one goes all religious and believes in the immaculate design conception!! :p

    Take amateur AA. If said person sets out to further the knowledge or advancement requires an understanding of the problem or knowledge of the current “state of the art” to begin with. In order to “go further” or come up with an “idea”, or how ever one wishes to define this, said person shall be faced with:

    Hmm..this will take money #1
    Hmm..this will take some time #2
    And hmm..this will require either background reading and studying or some trail by error basis to get a feel of “it” #3.

    Thus the only obstacles in advancement are those that must devote attention to items 1-3. Individuals, have all the time they need on their hands…so they are faced with, “do I pay for this myself”..if so, it leads to #3, what is it going to cost and how much, in either time/studying/equipment or money or both. Thus it must be a very determined individual with financial resources to peruse such an undertaking, or end up quite probably bankrupt; with that endless time on their hands to devote to a sole pursuit.

    Same scenario, but in a company. The obstacles remain the same, but, there are layers of bureaucracy between the idea and the finished “product”, just like with amateur AA. Thus, to allow those bureaucrats to provide the money, requires some degree of investment in time, i.e. studying and personal time, to become sufficiently acquainted with the facts to present to those that are the bean counters so they say “yes”. But showing anything that is ‘positive’ compared that which is ‘negative’ on a balance sheet of just one financial year is the hard part, to prize out that money.

    Amateurs do not have this problem…they can keep on going; bankrupt or otherwise. Any amateur that devotes sufficient time to a ‘problem’ will by default become very well acquainted with the subject; in terms of what does or does not work. But they may still lack the physics/maths/science behind the “why’s”, which are more important. Questioning them to “why” is often filled with emotive debates and “you don’t understand” type of comments because they feel threatened or that “I’ve sweated blood and tears on this for years and you think you know better..?”.

    Their pursuit will inevitably be riddled with endless failures (never publicised) before real success (to the joy of others as a shining example), simply by a lack of understanding the mechanisms that control the behaviour of their purists; when design is by trial and error. (Other than I do XX and YY occurs, always, but "I" don't know why!). Unless of course they subject themselves to peer review of their findings and their “theory” or “idea” behind their theory eventually becomes accepted fact and the knowledge on said subject matter has been pushed.

    Personal pursuits, amateur or professional always become emotive in the end. Having spent weeks/months/years devoting time to an idea/theory, it is hard not be. Just read this thread for evidence of that. But, the bottom line is, whether an amateur or professional, if one cannot explain to others why XX works, other than well I built it and it worked, what real value is it other than personal? Understanding the mechanisms of why and how, is the true genius, amateur or otherwise, and not emotions and euphoria that it did in ignorance.

    Unless you're like Gary and thinks one requires an intake of LSD to "open the mind" rather than "open the wallet" :D
  4. Gary Baigent
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    A word in your smug, shell like ear, Ad Hoc - just to spell it out so that it may perhaps penetrate ... but unlikely judging from your silly last Century drinking/drug cliches (one would imagine with your lack of verbal expression and unending, ponderous preaching that the same applies to your work; middle, nay, far to the right, of the road, unimaginative and dull.
    Anyway, nowhere have I said that enthusiastic, observant amateurs are without knowledge and experience and nowhere have I implied that one should come without experience into sailing yacht design.
    And to spell it out slowly once more - ALL the multihull pioneers who broke into new sailing areas (and many of the modern designs) came from this type of background: untold hours on the water, acute observation and open minds.
    Unlike you, Ad Hoc, with your silly, inept theories on multihulll stability. Remember that?
    If you in your delusions want to rewrite history, go ahead, we can all dismiss it for the rubbish that it is.

  5. Boat Design Net Moderator
    Joined: Feb 2010
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    Boat Design Net Moderator Moderator

    It appears this thread has unfortunately become more insult than enjoyable discussion at this point with insults directed to multiple members. Therefore the thread is being closed. Let's please try and keep discussions polite to all other members. Thanks.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
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