varnish or epoxy

Hi guys my name is Tracie and I am new to this whole forum thing. Anyway I have a 59 elgin molded ply boat that I got from my dad, and I would love to find out whats the best way to preserve it. The outside of the hull is finished in a 2 stage epoxy primmer and paint. now what of the inside, which I would like to keep natural. Should I used epoxy and varnish? Can I used tung oil as a stopgap untill I can finish stripping the out varnish, or will that just cause me more work later? I would love to get her in the water...Thanks from a girl without a clue

 

Tracie,

Don't use tung oil if you plan on using epoxy later, you want the epoxy to be able to penetrate the wood, the tung oil will prohibit that.
This is a big project from a girl without a clue. You will certainly know a lot if you do decide to finish off the project.

 

Hi Tracie,

I agree tung oil would be problematic. If you want to put something on that will seal for the time being, use oil-based polyurethane such as is used as a clear floor finish. It's cheap and effective, has no color to leave behind, and comes off with stripper and moderate sanding.
I don't know if the boat is enclosed, in such a way as to eliminate infra red light degrading the polyurethane, nor how long you are going to wait before stripping and varnishing. There are exterior grade clear polyurethane finishes too. They cost a bit more, but should be used if you need time and the inside surfaces are subject to full sunlight.

Alan

 

The easiest stop gap would be to get the boat out of direct sun light. This could mean storing her indoors, under a car port or erecting a tarp over it, but insure that direct sun doesn't hit the surfaces. The next thing is good ventilation. Open every hatch, door, locker, drawer, etc. so air can flow through freely. If you live in a humid climate, then a box fan, forcing air through the boat is a good idea (one that I use). Of course you want to keep the weather out of the boat too.

Anything you put on will have to be removed, so I'd shy away from this, if possible. It just increases surface prep effort and you'll have enough of that to fill your belly, trust me. Also do not use Thompson's Water Seal or other "decking" type of wood preservatives. Most of these contain wax which will screw with anything you decide to put on the surface later, including paint.

 

I guys sorry about not getting back to the forum before now but I spend the 4 days canoing/camping the ausable river, it was great! Anyway to let you know a little more about the boat, it will always be stored inside or properly cover.
I like the idea of using oil-based polyurethane clear floor finish. I know I will have to take it off later, but it would give her some protection and would allow me time to finish some of the other woodworking that I would like to do. Which includes new flooring/ decking and transom. Thank you all and I will send some pics soon Tracie.

 

Use a product called CPES from Smith Chemicals out in California.

It's thin so it seeps into the wood. Great stuff.

Other folks will try to sell you on 'thinned' Epoxy. I never used it myself but some guys think the CPES is too expensive.
I dont!
I did the inside of my old Tolly with it and it was like making the wood all brand new, sealed and water proof.

 

Mr. Geekie, do not use CPES. Unless you plan a complete (I mean really complete) disassembly of your craft, other wise then CPES is useless (and real hard to remove).

For this matter all epoxy use should be taken with a grain of salt (or whole salt shaker, depending on whom you're talking to). You have a molded traditional construction vessel. This likely means resorcinol and other traditional methods, which work quite well.

Epoxy (CPES or other wise) requires total encapsulation to be effective, period. There ain't any two ways about this, just ask the pro's or the manufactures. For what it's worth I'm a pro.

I'm also against flooring grade (or other types) of polyurethane, to seal up you hull temporarily. Only because it's one of the more difficult finishes to remove, when the time comes.

Currently, you have a reasonably well cared for boat, in need of some finish. Why make it any harder. The poly will not do anything other then make your job harder, if you get to it in the next year or two. It will not "save the wood".

Keep it dry, covered and well ventilated, so when you get to her, she'll be in about the same condition she was when you tossed the tarp over her and turned on the box fan. Protect her for further break down with understanding care, not miracle goo's. It will save grief later, trust me.

 

Tracie,

I definitely agree with PAR that nothing is the best thing to put on your boat's interior--- I was thrown by a comment you made that you'd "love to get her in the water", meaning, to me at the time, you intended to put the boat in the water immediately, and further, I envisioned an open style boat you wanted to protect from soaking up moisture until such time as you could afford the time and materials to do it right. Urethane seemed like the cheapest thing you could roll on quickly as a stop gap.
However, it's true that just storing the boat, your keeping the boat covered and reasonably dry and ventilated is the best course of action. As long as you're storing the boat, do nothing except prevent mold and subsequent blackening/rot though wise practices---- a cover for rain, vented to allow free air circulation, sunlight is fine but avoid added heat from hardtop or reflecting from a building inches away. Inspect the boat from time to time to make sure no mold is appearing anywhere--- if so get more moving air in there immediately. Inspection is, in fact, the real key ingredient. No matter what you might have done wrong to store the boat, getting in there from time to time is the best practice of all because you can then correct the situation. Allowing hot air to escape (convection) up high is a good method for proper storage. A tarp positioned like a pup tent with open ends a few feet beyond the boat's ends, quite close to the deck, is fine. The worst thing would be to wrap the boat up like a tootsie pop in plastic.

A.

 

Hi again and by the way it's miss geekie. Anyway I agree with you that epoxy is not my best bet. But my problem is that the inside of the boat has lots of bare wood and time being what it is, there is no way by boyfreind and I are going to be able to refinish the inside, and complete the other work that needed to be done. I would like to get the boat back in the water as soon as I can. So how much work am I creating for myself if I just varnish over what's there (after proper prep work first). this way I can both used the boat and spend next year doing the rest of the wood work. Thank you all so much, Tracie

 

Seems like you've got to put something on the wood. You can purchase cheap varnish ($10.99 per quart) at Ace hardware. It is called "spar varnish" and it claims to be UV resistant. I used some recently to put six coats on a pair of huge walnut screen doors for a business office, and I was damned if I was going to spend $25.00 a quart for north-facing house doors.
Maybe this is what you need to do. You say prep, but I say just sand with some 150 grit and foam-brush on some of that cheap varnish I mentioned. Two coats will give enough protection if you don't go any longer than you are saying before a proper finish is applied. Just a couple of coats will thin down to half their original thickness in a season. Shouldn't be too much for stripper to deal with. I wouldn't even remove the original varnish if there's any left. Just sand over it for now.
I'd forgotten about that cheap Ace varnish. I found its shortcoming to be a difficulty getting a really perfect finish no matter what. It tended to out-gas micro bubbles long after I'd walked away from what I thought was a perfect job, regardless of temperature considerations. Maybe it is otherwise almost equal to the expensive pro marine varnishes like epifanes or interlux schooner in terms of UV inhibitors. I'd guess in any case it would outlast polyurethane, which will yellow and become opaque before too long.

Alan

 

The problem with varnish and especially with polyurethane is that they are hard to remove cleanly. It's a sin to carefully prep a surface, apply not enough protective finish, then have to remove what remains of this when you do get around to completing the finish work.

Unless you plan on extensive use with what little remains of the season on the big lake up there, then putting nothing on the wood is the best route. You don't have to remove anything and though the wood work will look like crap, it already does, so there's no lose.

On those surfaces you do prep (strip, sand and fully prepare for varnish or other clear coat) you have to apply enough material to offer a moisture and UV resistant topcoat. If you don't the wood will stain, darken from UV and suffer from all the assorted things that happen to raw wood exposed to the marine environment. Even a single splash can ruin a nicely prepped surface, so will ozone, dirt, bugs, hand prints, etc. without a fully protective topcoat.

So, if you're not going all the way, then don't bother and get to it when you can, the wood can wait, while you enjoy using the boat. Work small areas at a time (with natural starting and stopping points of course) and complete them including several coats of finish (6 to 7 minimum). The wood will be happier and so will you, especially when you don't have to go back and redo areas you already prepped. In other words, you have a lot of work ahead of you, don't make it any harder then necessary.

 

I said "just sand with some 150 grit" --- not carefully prepare. Careful preparation, no. It would be a waste of time. Leave the gray, the weathered, sand enough to get some adhesion, and seal.
Or not. If fir plywood, grain weathering is bound to occur. I'd say, seal it. If good mahogany ply, general oxidation will continue, but a single season won't spell doom, since the grain is uniform and tight.
Solid wood, especially if flat and wide, as would possibly be the case with some trim pieces, really should not sit outside in the rain and sun.
But I know little about this particular boat, what kind of ply, what kind of solid wood, etc..
This may be a case of too little information, but at least the owners can plug in what applies to their particular situation.

 

The other option would be to leave just a little bit of the interior in natural wood, varnished or epoxied as your whim dictates--this is called "finishing 'bright'", by the way-- and paint the rest. This would give you the pleasing balance of varnish on the more easily-accessible portions of your interior, set off by a nice, crisp, easily cleaned and long-lasting paint job.

 

Guys,
If you listen close to what Tracy is trying to say is that she wants to make the boat presentable, so she can use it and protect the wood for a short term. Then later do the thing that we all do.
I would suggest that since it's the interior, short term. go for a cheap house paint that can be scraped or sandblasted off in a year. This way the boat will look presentable, she can use it, and the wood is protected.

 

my advice on old woodenboats is STAY AWAY FROM EPOXY,even the gougon brothers of west say it wont work,i work classic yacht refits and in a time crunch our brightworkers will sand with fairly course paper to allow for better penetration ,then build up with50\50 marine varnish then moving up to neat varnish,even if you only get 2 coats on your wood will be protected and you can always scratch it and apply more varnish later