Separate Deck From Hull

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by BobBill, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. Steve Clark
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Steve Clark Charged Particle

    The hull deck joint is most likely filled with some version of filled polyester resin.This stuff isn't remarkably tenacious, so it is often possible to insert a putty knife and simply unzip the hull deck joint.
    Mess around a bit with heating up the knife with a blow torch if it is hard to get started.
    You may damage either laminate a bit along the way, but it will be easier to glue the boat back together if the parts are more or less their original shape,
    The spray foam buoyancy is something best avoided.It has ~2% porosity by volume and so can gain a whole lot of weight in a hurry, and shrinks after it has expanded, and thus can distort whatever it is bonded to. Best to add ribs, easily done by glassing over split pipe insulation to stiffen the hull and deck.
    You can provide emergency buoyancy cheaply by putting 1/2 liter PEK soda bottles inside the hull, or milk jugs or anything of that nature. A mesh bag does a fine job keeping them from rattling around too much,
    SHC
     
  2. kite sailor
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    kite sailor Junior Member

    Deck back on.

    Hey everyone. I wanted to let anyone who has been following this kite restoration to check back to the picture gallery many new pics have been added.

    Thanks to everyone who offered advice. I realize not everyone will second our choice to go with the foam, but for us, going for accuracy in this restoration, thought that the downside to our choice would be minimal. So the deck has been reattached, the gunwales got some glass on the undersides to stiffen them, the mast footing was removed, reinforced, and reattached, the entire deck has been stripped of all paint and grip tape, and finally the deck is repainted she looks great and I now believe she will be ready to sail in the spring. On to the hull, I'm thinkin bright red.

    Cheers! Happy New Year!
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Traditionally red is bad luck on sailing yachts, so if you want to win more then you don't, then paint it dark blue with a gold cove stripe. Nice job of patching her up, now lets see her splashed and underway.
     
  4. kite sailor
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    kite sailor Junior Member

    And tomatoes are poisonous...

    ... or so most Europeans believed until the 19th century, including the Italians whose cuisine, today, would be unrecognizable without the bright red berry. I've always been of the mind that luck falls where it will, and good luck to anyone who is blessed with a bounty.

    Truth be told I never did much racing. I've only seen one other kite in my life, in person, so I think one would have a train full of trouble putting together enough kites for a single design race if one opened it to the entire east coast. I got the idea for red last summer when I watched the Volvo Open 70s arriving in Boston Harbor and I'll tell you team Puma's mostly red hull looked pretty swell on that dark, ocean blue water.

    Maybe its got something to do with red and blue being complementary colors. The Impressionist Claude Monet used to play the two in his seascapes often. Bottom line, nobody will miss a red boat sailing on blue water under a blue summer sky, tomato red was one of the original color choices for the boat, and our projects goal is close accuracy after all.

    I do appreciate the compliment from PAR, and I do agree with PAR on his most important point; I can't wait to get her on the water!
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  5. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Your Kite can compete under Portsmouth rate, in local regattas if you like.
     
  6. kite sailor
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    kite sailor Junior Member

    That's true. But as someone who is not a racer I don't wanna win by way of a formula.
     
  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Most of us have to win by a formula, you ain't so special. Besides, you'll have to sail your heart out to do well against your "number". You'll learn an incredible amount about sailing with just a few races under your belt. Don't discount it until you've had your butt completely handed to you (on the race course), by a girl half your son's age and you just can't admit to the embarrassment any more.
     
  8. BobBill
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    BobBill Senior Member

    I will "Aye!" that one...just when you think you are old enough to be a pro, you get it handed to you on a platter.

    Good one, Par! I will smile all day. You are not alone.

    Kite Sailor, kindly check you emails. This crew has a few questions on your Kite separation and rejoin experience that the pics do not quite explain.

    I take it your mast and boom are in good or good refurbish-able condition. That motor is essential and very rare to find one in great shape after being around for 40 years.

    Still, I have to thank you for your great, no, outstanding, record keeping and pics.
     
  9. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Separate (KIte) Hull and Deck

    I have gone over the pics by Kite Sailor well.

    I have questions.

    Was the frame (absolutely) necessary?

    Why did you screw the deck to the hull supports? Would not the adhesive used for deck hull have been sufficient? (It looks like that was done.)

    What were the wood blocks at various points installed to do, spacers?

    Why the foam in the center, where the water will weep, instead of along both sides as factory?

    (Not that I would install floats. I like Steve Clark's idea of using some sort of bottle type...am planning on using 4 of those circular deck ports to maintain interior after finishing - no foam.)
     
  10. kite sailor
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    kite sailor Junior Member

    Email response

    BobBill,

    I responded to your email I received on Jan 1st. I sent the response to your @hbci.com address, it would be from my @yahoo.com address. I hope you got, or can get it. The response had a lot of good info in it, and some questions about your boat, please let me know if I need to resend it and a good address to send it to. Just email me here through boatdesign.net and it will get forwarded to my yahoo.com address if you didn't receive my response. I will try to answer your questions here:

    - I can't say if the hull frame/cradle is absolutely necessary, I've never tried it without it. The use of it was the marine architect's idea. His reasons were that it maintains the hull shape (when the deck is removed the hull loses a lot of its rigidity) and it is certainly a big advantage maneuvering the hull around safely and without damaging it.

    - The deck was screwed down for strength and stiffness. It had screws originally when I bought her, but they were lose. So at that time, 20 yrs ago, we replaced them all with rivets and glassed over them. This time after the glass reinforcement of the longitudinal members we decided to go back to screws that were countersunk and then glassed over flush so you can't even tell they are there. Adhesive may work all by itself, but we decided to play it safe. Where I sail the ocean is quite cold, even during a summer heat wave, but with the sun the beach can be quite hot. So a boat hauled up on the beach after a sail (or hauled into the cold water for a sail) can change temperature quite drastically in a short time, so we were thinking of the expansion/contraction issue as well.

    - The blocks are marine-ply we mounted to back the areas where we will later attach hardware to the deck. We did this so we could use screws again instead of rivets or through-bolts (the backs of which could prove impossible to access ever again).

    - The rationale behind the foam was this: After taking into consideration the condensation and water infiltration concerns I had, and that were voiced in this forum the decision was made to; one, make the hull as airtight as possible to eliminate water infiltration; two, to use a closed-cell foam in multiple pours to reduce absorption and in the case of some minimal absorption to prevent the moisture from wicking through the entire foam mass; and three, to use the bare minimum of foam most efficiently to last the longest. The foam is in the bottom chamber because in order to put under the gunwales, as done by the factory, we would've had to make molds an install it after it cured, or cut and shape a ready solid foam, both options run the risk of compromising the closed-cell integrity of the foam. The drainage is also best there in the bottom chamber there is a well channeled path for any moisture to drain out the port in the transom so long as the bow is tipped up. Also, the only way to attach any foam to the underside of the gunwales would have involved adhesives, and as you can see from the "before" pics eventually the adhesive fails.

    I won't know the success of these solutions until the weather gets warmer so all I can provide is theory now, and I'll admit the foam fill in the hull is still a question mark for me. From your description of your plan it sounds as though you are taking a different route (which is quite reasonable and sound.) I don't think our strategy would work as well with multiple ports into the inner-hull, and I decided against any visible ports simply to stay as true as possible to the factory aesthetics.
     
  11. BobBill
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Kite Hull Separation

    Many thanks.

    I did not receive any emails. Could be the spammer thingy grabbed it and I deleted unknowingly.

    Will recheck.

    You can try again - I was able to download the pics, one at a time - and will have some questions for you.

    A past owner must have messed with the hull a bit...never saw one with screws in deck...

    The center pipe thwart traveler is not stock at least until after my boat was made, sail number 1306 and may have been a different maker.

    Kites had the trav set on 5/8 deck track.

    I sent email to your Comcast server.

    Shoot me another from Yahoo...

    And, thanks again. what a great job you did.

    I take it the mast is okay.

     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
  12. kite sailor
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    kite sailor Junior Member

    BobBill, just resent the email, again to your @hbci.com address. The mast and boom are in fine shape, fortunately. Finding out about the traveler is taking some time but we think we have a lead on answering the question. By the way, is your dagger board original?
     
  13. BobBill
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Minnesotan wakes up daily, in SE MN, a good start,

    BobBill Senior Member

    Separating hulls

    Yes. The D-board is original. In fact all of boat is original, though mast is about 50% and has some cracks. Sail is way out of shape, rudder is original but needs refinishing.

    Will send you another PM with email and copy of what I sent on the email, if you did not get it. I will check my spam, but not getting emails.

    As long as your boat has the tube thwart traveler, I suggest you stay with it.

    The deck was not reinforced for the track, so the current mode is likely a better choice now.
     
  14. BobBill
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Deck/Hull separation

    I had not planned to support the Kite's hull when I separate it, but now wondering if I could fabricate a frame and use poly foam to support hull with release agent.

    Basically, spray in three areas and lay hull onto foam...the proceed with work.
    Maybe even three separate channels athwart the hull...

     

  15. BobBill
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Minnesotan wakes up daily, in SE MN, a good start,

    BobBill Senior Member

    Bouyancy Air Bags Foam or Plastic Floatation

    Have been mulling Steve Clark's idea about using sealed plastic bottles etc for bouyancy or floatation inside dinghy hull and Par's suggestion of not using any devices, especially foam.

    Also came up with a means to part the decks, I think.

    "nothing" is better than wet foam, and Clark has a point if one worries about needs to be airtight for a time.

    But, though I am still thinking on it, seems some sort of light, refillable airbags, accessible via ports in hull or tucked here and there on some open boats seems a good idea too.

    As to tool to separate deck from hull, Perhaps a well shaped old hacksaw or flat metal, even a flattened and shaped BBQ charcoal heater or metal, connected to a rheostat and 110 AC, to heat may be useful. Heated just enough and shaped to a right angle where the deck cap meets the hull.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2010
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