Self made Copper-Epoxy-mix as Antifouling? - And the 'same' ready made products?

Discussion in 'Materials' started by Angélique, Oct 23, 2009.

  1. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Hi Paul,

    Do you know of a max amount of copper powder in the epoxy that is allowed by law..?

    About your website, Epoxy Products ---> Copper Epoxy Filler:
    What mixing ratios is that in 'kg copper powder per liter* epoxy (resin incl. hardener)' and what mixing ratio do you recomend for use as antifouling and what kind of epoxy do you recomend for this, please give a link to the epoxy..?

    Thanks for the info !

    Cheers,
    Angel

    P.S. - * answer in kg would be even better as it all can be weighted then.
     
  2. eyschulman
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    eyschulman Senior Member

    Just think about the size of the paint industry associated with marine bottom paint and the access to research that industry has. Good luck if you think you can put some copper powder in epoxy and come up with the magic bullet. So far it has not worked not because of lack of effort.
     
  3. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Regarding to post #31:

    Paul answered by PM as he was afraid it was too commercial for him to post it on the forum, but he gave permission to quote if I wanted to share the information, so here it is...

    Thanks for the answer Paul, hope you stay tuned for further questions, I don't think it's too commercial to answer questions here directly though, but I don't rule the roost here, so do it as you like . . . . :)

    Cheers,
    Angel
     
  4. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    As some may be aware, I recently went on the hard for 2 weeks to attend to some minor maintenance and change propellers... I launched mid / late April 2011 so less than 6 months wet, had a good growth of slime and green stuff from the enriched (well fertilised with run-off from domestic gardens etc), water in the marina's... A quick wash with the high pressure gear and the bottom is good...

    Whilst travelling very little fouling occurred, what started, was removed easily with a soft broom as the tide went out and the boat settled on the sand-bar... The main application was done in small batches that would cover less than a square metre... Observation and experience indicates thin rolled, (using short fibre rollers about 2" wide were best), on well worked layers of high copper content mix with normal "west" epoxy was best... The powdered pure copper I get in 10kg or whatever pails from ATL on the Gold Coast of SE Queensland... I have 10 to 12 kg of copper on the bottom of my hulls... and I am pleased with the result... http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-building/my-little-piece-peace-25962-121.html#post498524 for a recent image... The effect of the copper may be seen on the mini-keel, (where a dog peed),... 50 or so years ago all wooden plank hulls, (local prawn trawlers etc.), were covered with sheets of copper as anti-foul paint was not readily known or available...
     
  5. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Don't know if it's correct but this I found in the Coppercoat FAQ about the use on aluminium...
    Sorry a bit late response, just rereading the thread . . . . :eek:

    Cheers,
    Angel
     
  6. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    From the quote in post #33:

    ‘‘ the copper is coated with something to keep it 'fresh' and is non conductive as sold. I understand a mild acid removes the 'coating' ’’

    This keeps me wondering . . . . .

    - What acid to use ?
    - How to apply the acid on a powder so fine it even floats in the air, and how to remove the acid without losing powder ?
    - How to be sure that the coating is off ?
    - Must one get rid of the acid residues ?
    - If so, how to get rid of the residues without losing copper powder ?
    - How to dry the copper powder properly before putting it in the mix ?

    Does all available copper powder have this coating ?

    How is that with the copper powder that comes with Coppercoat . . ? ?

    [​IMG]
    Coppercoat as delivered
    : epoxy resin + hardener + copper powder.

    As to post #32, sure a self-selected mixture has a higher risk of failure.

    Rereading the thread, less than half of the responses so far are positive about the working as a good antifouling, Benjy gives good reasons to accept this. Durability, as reported here, is OK.

    Cheers,
    Angel
     
  7. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Thanks for the info Mas [​IMG], bottom looks good . . . .

    [​IMG]
    click to enlarge


    But as much oxidation on the waterline as where the dog peed. Both, the oxidation on waterline and on the dog pee sure shows you have your copper exposed . . . .

    Btw, must have been a big dog . . . . or one that lifted his behind to reach the top of that LAR keel on blocks . . . . :eek:

    Cheers,
    Angel

    P.S. - Mas, what mixing ratios copper powder vs. epoxy (resin incl. hardener) did you use ?
     
  8. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    General question, is the copper oxide formed on the exposed copper surface less leaching into the environment as the pre-oxidised copper in copper oxide based antifouling paints ?

    Cheers,
    Angel
     
  9. pauloman
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    pauloman Epoxy Vendor

    I've tried matching the copper claims of other vendors in their epoxy. They cheat and distort the facts. if you used as much as they claim, you get copper putty. The trick often used is that they don't consider the curing agent as part of the epoxy. Just the resin part A is the 'real epoxy' - so the numbers are before it is 'thinned down' with curing agent.

    And of course anyone paying hundreds of dollars (US) per gallon for any sort of epoxy, copper epoxy mix, or LPU coating is a fool...... yet Those vendors are easily making 300-500% profits on each sale and laughing all the way to the bank.. I've been in the marine and industrial coatings business for over 20 years, I know......
     
  10. tazmann
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    tazmann Senior Member

    I did two boats in the late 90's a santana 20 and merit 23 with copperepoxy, works great for trailer boats, It will start growing slime in a week or two in the water. Cleans off easy. I still have the merit 23 and the copperpoxy is still in good shape. iT dicolors and turns greenish and with a light wet sand looks new again. I wouldn't use it as an antifouling you wont be happy with it but it does help some. As far as I know it has been outlawed here because of the copper which does not make sense to me it is not ablative and last 10 or more years
    Tom
     
  11. sailbleu
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    sailbleu Junior Member

    Hello Pauloman,

    are you still copper oxide business ?

    Thanks
     
  12. sailbleu
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    sailbleu Junior Member

    Did you sand the hull before launching the boat ?
    I've been said this is neccesairy for a good result.

    Regards
     
  13. sailbleu
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    sailbleu Junior Member

    I would like to revive this topic since I'm in the process of coppercoating my boat.
    First of all , you hear good and bad reviews on the treatment.
    But the general pattern is that when people use the real stuff , the major part is happy with it , as where the DIY coppercoaters are not that happy.
    I think it all has to do with the kind of epoxy being used.
    The real stuff is made of water based epoxy , allowing the coat to wear down bringing new copper to the surface , like a normal koper oxide based AF.
    Using non water based epoxy encapsules the copper forcing you to sand it down once in while to get the active copper to the surface.
    Therefor , I think the succes depends on the kind of epoxy.

    Let's start from there .

    Any comments ?

    Thanks an regards
     
  14. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Here's an objective article you might find interesting:

    http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2009/11/coppercoat/
     

  15. sailbleu
    Joined: Mar 2012
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    sailbleu Junior Member

    Thanks Mike ,

    ive also stumbled on this link some time ago , but unfortunatly it doesn't say what epoxy is being used .
    I'm so convinced the kind of epoxy is the key element.

    Regards
     
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