Self Designed Yacht

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by TheMoodyMonk, Jul 21, 2010.

  1. TheMoodyMonk
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    TheMoodyMonk Junior Member

    Hey there all,
    The Name is Davin, I'm a New Zealander currently a student at high school who wants to go on to to do marine engineering. Me and my two best mates (who have left school) have decided that we want to complete a circumnavigation. This is the crazy part, they are in their first year of a boat building apprenticeship with Yachting Developments NZ and thought it would be cool to Completely refit or design and build a 45-50ft yacht.
    because im not working and studying i opted to do the research and design:!: :eek:
    after my own research i have decided on a mono-hulled yacht. But, as to what Sort of Hull (as in material), i'm completely lost, i am in favor of an aluminium hull, mainly for rigidness but the forgivingness it may have due to the malleable properties of metal. but will consider working with whatever. the problem i have with this is on my own research i find that articles always tend to be bias to one or the other, probably due to advertising or that is what that company specializes in.
    The Other thing is rigs, once again i'm lenient, but i have a fair idea with what we want. for aesthetics, beauty and that romantic feel about sailing (my earliest intro to sailing was aboard 150'LOA Barkentine STS Spirit of New Zealand.) we want a traditional rig that should have at least one Gaff rigged sail with a possibly with a topgallant and Topsail. To fulfill these visions, i am thinking either traditional sloop rig, (multiple head-sails + Topsail), or maybe even a schooner rig, both possibly with cored wooden laminate masts etc.
    the other contrary is number of masts. the rigging involved in this and strains on the hull that would have to be catered for.
    i don't expect to full answers to these questions due to the complexities involved, but any articles, books, threads, Webpages that may point me in the right direction will be greatly appreciated.:D

    Regards,
    Davin
     
  2. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    A big topic all right. You havnt said how much sailing experience you have had, but if not a lot you will probably have people suggest steel as the most "forgiving" hull materials for hitting rocks and submerged containers etc.
    Its also the easiest to have repaired in out of the way places compared to aluminium.

    I guess the special sail configurations would be best to try when/if you have had a bit more blue water experience

    Good luck with the project.
     
  3. SKot
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    Location: Poland

    SKot S Kot

    Lots of questions. I would like give you few answer.
    I am designer of yachts. You wrote about alluminium yacht. You right, every superyachts construction are metal yachts. I am great fun of metal yachts. But good weather resistant steel witch copper addition is better than aluminium for this length of yacht in my opinion (cheaper and easier to welding). There is easier to find good worker for welding steel. Steel is easier material for first yacht.
    There is easier to designed and made new one yacht than do something with refiting old one.
    First you need is estimate how big yacht you need. Length displacement ratio is most important for me.
    Secund sail area vs displacement 2/3,
    Next one. Saiul area vs wetted surface and ballast displacement ratio.
    The best book in my opinion for you is “Nature of boats” - Dave Geer.
    You can compare two or more different yacht if you know ratios.
    You must to find designer, drawer next who will draw your vision in 3D and can calculate displacement, strength, drag, etc etc.
    Next you will generate CNC paterns. This steep is very very important.
    45 ft hull you can make in 3 months if is good designed with 3 persons.
    Feel free to ask me more.
     
  4. TheMoodyMonk
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    Location: Auckland, New Zealand

    TheMoodyMonk Junior Member

    Thanks guys, i have reasonable inshore sailing experience and regularly volunteer aboard a 150ft Barkentine with the full square rig set up, other than that its small yacht but i intend to greatly expand on this knowledge over the next few years.
    I will take all the advice you have given away to night and get some more research in tonight.
    As my two best mates are training boat builders for a super-yacht company, i am sure that their Naval architect would be able to help us out. I live in Auckland so if thats not the case there will defiantly be a yard somewhere that will aid us in the design of the hull and even the CNC Patterns.
    Just out of interest is their any free-ware 3D CAD "type" architectural software out there ? I have Google sketchup but that doesn't quite cut it. :p
     
  5. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Dont know what part of nz you are in but there is a wealth of knowledge sitting waiting to be used possibly close to where ever you might happen to be , There are semi retired boat designers and boat builders / designers not far from me . I live in west Auckland !!!:confused:
    When the plug got pulled a while back and the domino effect closed boating companies one after the other in a very short time some of these guys went into hibination and are still pottering about in the garden and driving there wives mad with there frustration . :D
    I come from the fibreglass/marine industry with 25 years under my belt !!
    Look about you and do a little asking and some home work you could find more knowledge about anything boating than you could ever get from going to Tech anywhere in the country !!!:)
     
  6. DHMzip
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    DHMzip Junior Member

    sounds like an awesome adventure! Do lots of research. I am a student of Naval Architecture with loads of time on my hands. let me know if I can help.
     
  7. kc135delta
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Location: Eastern Europe, for now

    kc135delta Junior Member

    Do lots of research!!!

    and don't listen to the nay-sayers. But keep in mind safety is the #1 authority and should NEVER and I mean ***NEVER*** take a backseat to anything else. The last thing you will want to do is bury one of your friends because you thought you could "get a little more" or "go a little further".

    Good luck
     
  8. TheMoodyMonk
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    Location: Auckland, New Zealand

    TheMoodyMonk Junior Member

    :] thanks guys the response means heaps!
    @tunnels, I am based on the North Shore, so i am sure there may be some about ? and i believe there is a bodybuilding company in Birkenhead ? not totally sure if its still there but i may check it out :]
    @kc135delta, haha love the saying, and with that i totally agree. were 16 now we plan leave port on the 1st of January 2019, it is nine years away, we will be 25 and have trained for offshore sailing, and built the yacht over a period of 4 years. saving for three years before we start. also as mentioned i will be joining the new Zealand navy as a marine engineer, and the friends will be professional boat builders. so no short cuts will be taken :]
    am really grateful for the support. cant wait to get started designing after i have finished this research, i am getting hold of the books, Elements of Yachts Design (Skene's original), Principles of Yacht Design (Lars Larrson & Rolf E Eliasson) and The Gaff Rig Handbook (John Leather). if you know of any others that i could check out that would be cool to :D
     
  9. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    If all goes well, you guys are in for the ride of your lives - wish I could join you.:cool:

    But lets do a reality check first;

    1. First year apprentices spells little $$$
    2. As for you Davin, studying means even less $$$
    3. 40-50ft spells big $$$
    4. Maintaining and marina fees also shouts big $$$ on 40-50ft LOA

    Unless you guys had won the lotto, or have rich parents etc, consider this.

    The hull and deck only represents about 12 - 20% of the building cost of a sailboat to basic sail-a-way condition. Even if you go the make all stuff ourselves, perhaps 25%.
    That said, after you had done your costing to have a boat build, add another 30 - 40% to that. That is for inflation, rising costs, things over looked etc from my long experience building boats.

    If I were you guys, I would go for a Tom Thumb 28 in steel or in my view the best small steel cruiser out there, the Dix 30 Houtbay. Both boats are transom hung tiller steering and means less $$ and simple to fix. They are relative cheap to build and maintain and marina fees much less that say for instance a 45ft.
    Mast and sails are cheaper and easier to handle and both these boats will sleep 3 people with comfort. The TT28 has that traditional look and the Dix 30 a classic contemporary look - girls will love both.

    Best of luck guys.
     
  10. DHMzip
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    DHMzip Junior Member

    check out:
    Boatowner's Mechanical & Electrical Manual: How to Maintain, Repair, and Improve Your Boat's Essential Systems by Nigel Calder
     
  11. peter radclyffe
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    good luck, it may be best for you to use steel, you can do a welding course, then you can earn a living on the way round if you need to
     
  12. TheMoodyMonk
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    Location: Auckland, New Zealand

    TheMoodyMonk Junior Member

    @DHMZip thanks man ill get around to the library and check it out :D
    @Wynand N, Thanks for those stats, i was actually having trouble finding some like that :]
    i know it would be expensive, when i said go onto do marine engineering, i want to do it in the navy. so study will accompanied by full time pay. its is also a project that going to span over 8 years before finally set sails and leave port. i am doing a lot of research at the moment to help with the initial design then i will spending the next three years over this time period finalizing the design, e.g size, rig, interior and huge portion of our wages are going into a joint savings account to build interest. just so we can get off of the ground and start.
     
  13. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Looks like I made a good guess that steel would show up as a top contender.

    I always look at this attached cost breakdown when I get the itch to build a boat.

    Courtesy of Derek Kelsal, it shows a great breakdown of costs for building different sizes of boats, with allowances for major items.

    Obviously, its based on his designs and building methods, but its a great eye opener on where the dollars go.

    Another possibly usefull resource is to lookup Brent Swain - get a couple of his books for usefull hints, and look at the steel hull origami methodology. He gets a lot of stick from purists and other designers, but I reckon he gets more blue sea miles per dollar than any other designer .... and he actually goes long distance sailing.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. TheMoodyMonk
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    Location: Auckland, New Zealand

    TheMoodyMonk Junior Member

    @rwatson, you sure did, and thanks for that it'll come in real handy :D
     

  15. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Your guess was good, no doubt.

    Your recommendation was far away from being good!

    BS has not one single supporter here amongst the professionals! And these are not all purists or other designers.

    Regards
    Richard
     
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