Seeking Core Sound 17 alternatives

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by nacrajon, Sep 1, 2013.

  1. nacrajon
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Australia

    nacrajon Junior Member

    I'm would like to buy a replacement boat for my Taipan 4.9, the Core Sound 17 cat ketch seems to be the most logical to meet my requirements and I will likely buy a kit and make it. It will be my first monohull and I would prefer a multi but none seems to meet my requirements. Any ideas?

    1.*Must be able to be rigged, launched, sailed and recovered single-handily.
    2.*Mast must be easy to raise single handed with bad lower back.
    3.*Must be able to carry two adults and two 10 yr old children and on shore camping gear for camp cruising for up to one week.
    4.*Must not scare small children or novice sailors through the perceived danger of high capsize risk.
    5.*Must be able to be pulled up beach by two adults, prefer to carry beach wheels, or beach rollers aboard.
    6.*Draft no more than 0.3m with board up.
    7.*Must be able to self bail and recover after capsize by 1 person when unloaded.
    8.*Must be able to carry an anchor.
    9.*Must be able to use a small outboard (2hp?).
    10.*Must be able to reef easily and have a furling jib
    11.*Initial outlay no more than AUS $10,000, if building will be able to afford an extra $5,000 over the following year.
    12.*Must have the ability to camp cruise in 25kt+, and 1.5+m swell.

    Desired
    1.*Be light, fun and enjoyable on all points of sail.
    2.*Be able to race in off the beach dinghy events
    3.*Be able to launch off the beach, not just restricted to a boat ramp.
    4.*EU Category ‘C’ inshore rated.
    5.*Kick up centre board
    6.*Ability to sleep two adults on floor board/ trampoline.

    Boat Shortlist
    1.*Bayraider 17 dinghy – sensible, approx AUS 20K to build in kit form with trailer, don’t know if it is fast enough, prefer multi, difficult to pull up beach, restricted to boat ramps for launching.
    2.*Core Sound 20, MkII, dinghy with water ballast and an open day sailing cockpit. Difficult to beach launch/recover. Would be restricted to boat ramps when single handed,

    3. CORE Sound 17, seems like the best mix. Modified with flat topped sails and wish boomed cat ketch is my current favourite.

    4. Old tornado with shortened rig, wing seats and outboard mount. May meet requirements and be cheap but chopping the rig could turn it into a dog.
     
  2. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The CS-17 looks to be the best fit for your SOR, as it hits all of the requirements and desires, though EU cat, compliance is suspected, you'll have to ask Graham. Maybe Tom can help here, as he has a great deal of experience with the CS series in general.
     
  3. nacrajon
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Australia

    nacrajon Junior Member

    PAR,
    Thank you for response.
    Does anybody know of a multi that could fit my SOR?
     
  4. Skyak
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Skyak Senior Member

    Your SOR says "recover after capsize by 1 person when unloaded" which is a tall order for a multi-hull with that kind of displacement -2 adults, 2 children, a motor and fuel...

    I think that a tremolino style trimaran would be a wonderful boat for your purposes and with a tame rig would be very unlikely to capsize and still outperform monohulls. Designing in the ability to right it, singlehand, would make it much more complex and costly.

    On the other hand your SOR says "Must not scare small children or novice sailors through the perceived danger of high capsize risk" which I think a trimaran does well but subjectively would eliminate all monohulls without significant ballast. Dingies are fast through ballast shifting and light weight -but by ballast I mean occupants. Consider this, you are zipping along, 2 adults and 2 kids to windward, the kids goof around and end up to leeward, which is no big deal until they get into some trouble that compels one adult to cross over to leeward to help or discipline them -you're going over -and this is a far from unlikely scenario. The idea that you are going to go fast in a dingy SAFELY with inexperienced crew is flawed. Trimarans go fastest with the least demand on crew skill and the greatest feeling of safety -but your SOR doesn't say anything about how fast it has to go.

    If I was you I would consider building a main hull like a tremolino or a scarab and use your taipan for the amas and possibly the rig. Rather than design for capsize recovery, I would design to be extremely unlikely to capsize and safe to occupy capsized.
     
  5. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    I have found a number of alternatives you could look into.

    CATAMARANS

    'Slider' by Ray Albridge, 500 lbs
    'Jigsaw' by Bernd Kohler, 400 lbs
    'KD65' by Bernd Kohler, 720 lbs

    MONOHULLS

    'AF2', 600 lbs, 'BLOBSTER', 750 lbs, 'CAROLINE', 750lbs, 'HAPSCUT', 450 lbs, 'LAGUNA' , 400 lbs, and 'NORM'S BOAT', 600 lbs. All of these were designed by Jim Michalak.

    All these designs have low sail plans, which makes them less likely to capsize in strong winds, and makes raising and lowering the masts less of a hassle. Most keep the crew low in the boat, to use their body weight as ballast.

    You can look up the plans to all of these plus probably many more on www.duckworksmagazine.com under 'plans'. There you will find descriptions of the above mentioned designs, along with a way to order the plans, if you are so inclined.
     
  6. SteveMellet
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    Location: South Africa

    SteveMellet Senior Member

    I think John Welsford's Awol satisfies many of your list of requirements.
     
  7. Ganbai
    Joined: Sep 2013
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    Location: Germany

    Ganbai New Member

    Trimarans

    Hi There,

    a chopped Tornado is no good idea, especially in strong winds.

    I think a trimaran could be a good boat to fit your bill. The risk of a capsize will be minimal with a mainhull between the amas, the whole boat will be more stable. So you could stay with your beloved multihull. The concept of the Tremolino with the Hobie 16 Amas is nice for a cruiser, but the boat is very long and the Hobie 16 hulls lack volume. Starting from the beach will be difficult as the boat will be quite heavy.

    There is a alternative from Richard Woods drawing board, called Strike Trimaran. Perhaps you can use your Taipan as amas.

    Or you follow the link in this thread ... also interesting. It has modern- and more pleasant lines. *imho*

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/tri-progress-47844.html



    Have fun, Nick
     

  8. nacrajon
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Australia

    nacrajon Junior Member

    End Result

    I found this old thread, thought someone might be interested that I ended up sailing a CS17 in very light conditions and it was ok but it didn't quite hit the spot.

    I ended up buying a Magnum 21 trimaran and in general it has been a very good choice. Only real downside has been the one hour rigging time and in stock form it was under powered. Easily fixed with a large gennaker.
     
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