Seaworthiness

Discussion in 'Stability' started by Guillermo, Nov 26, 2006.

  1. BATAAN
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    Goodwill
    Total SA- Sailmaker told me Main is 1000, and I guess the staysl 180? - jib 150? - mizzen about 220? Maybe 1600 total?
    I can't find a drawing anymore but should make one up. Boat is unrigged right now so I can't hoist to measure.
    Disp.- Travelift operator looked at gauges and told me 46,000 lbs
    Ballast- Cement and rock crusher balls between frames - 1,500/2,000 lbs? + 1,000 lbs trim ballast and hardware. Not much ballast really.
    LOD - About 40
    Beam 14.5
    Draft 5
    10 ton hold amidships, now full of tools and hardware.
    Don't forget to figure hull weight in ballast calcs.
     

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  2. Raggi_Thor
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    Raggi_Thor Nav.arch/Designer/Builder

    And GoodWill, when did you become interested in numbers?

    :)
     
  3. Landlubber
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    Thanks Bataan, i would hardly expect the rig to all be there afetr a roll anyhow, but interesting.
     
  4. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    For a detail study on this, if someone has not mentioned it already, read Seaworthiness, The Forgotten Factor by, C.A. Marchaj, Just so much logic for the full keel.
     
  5. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    38 times in this thread I believe :D
     
  6. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    38 times, man you keep good stats, Just skimmed the thread and was so impressed with the book, not all the math but his style of explaining the technical to the untrained. Geo.
     
  7. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Yes, "Seaworthiness, the forgotten factor" has been many times quoted in this thread.

    Here another interesting book on seaworthiness, from a broader perspective:

    The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat
    by John Vigor.

    Have a nice 2011, all of you. :)
     
  8. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Guillermo, A Banger, My dream, Have a collection of info on them. I am an old motorsailer guy having converted a couple of hulls into such. Will be using some of the looks of the Banger in my present conversion/build. Thanks for the info on the ref. book will pick it up on my next visit to our huge used book store here in Halifax, N.S. Geo.
     
  9. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Hi viking!
    I would like to know more about your present motorsailer conversion. Perhaps I could post some info and photos about it at my Motorsailers & Motorsailing web page if you send it to me. If you are interested, please send me a PM or a message to g.gefaell:)gmail:)com (substitute the smilies as appropriate).

    Regards.
     
  10. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Guillermo, this will be my third conversion and final, of a hull to a motorsailer. This one my personal boat which i hope to keep if only people would stop making me an offer i can't refuse. I have kept good records and photos of #2 and #3 conversions and thus far the same for this latest build. I'd be happy to send info to your site. Would you like me to send info on #1 and #2, that would give me time to progress a little further on this present build. Thus far on this build, I have stripped out all the unwanteds, installed the floor timbers(composite) inverted the hull, stripped off the old keel shoe in prep to install the sailing keel, taken off the hull lines and am presently transcribing them for my designer to input them into his computer program P.S. my salr@eastlink.ca,Will communicate by PM henseforth, Thanks for the invite. Geo.
     
  11. glsailing
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    glsailing Peter

    Could you elaborate please? Can it claw of a lee shore in wind and waves?
    Cheers,
    Peter
     
  12. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Peter,I was a Halman dealer, I used to trailer these from the factory in Burlington to the west coast of Newfoundland. These boats are incrediable sea boats quite capable of long distance coastal crusing. On my demonstrator i removed the 1000lb of steel ballast designed for fresh water and installed 1200lb of lead. This gave alot of extra storage below the floor and greately lowered the cent. of gravity making the boat stiffer for the heavier weather of the north atlantic.I have two friends that own them and they moore off my wharf. One friend this past summer did a coastal trip from Halifax almost to Yarmouth and he will elaborate as soon as he sees your post. The other mods include double backstays, heavier upper stays and fore stays,an anchor platform to accomidate a 15 to 20lb. plow anchor, a larger main cleat, larger full 2in. cockpit drains with bronz sea cocks and thru hulls, a bronz seacock and thru hull for the sink drain. We also replaced the electrical panel and installed marine wiring. The other mod i would recommend is a furling jib or at least a jib downhaul.These boats were a good bang for the buck but did suffer from quality of interior workmanship and many had problems witht he hull to deck joint and the compression post setup,but neither a big problem to fix. I think the Halman is a stronger boat than her sister the Nordica in that the Halman is a one piece hull while the Nordica came out of a split hull mould. The cutaway forefoot also gives the Halman the edge in coming about. They have no problems going to windward but lose speed and ground if sailed too close to the edge, better to fall off a bit and maintain speed.Have sailed hundreds and hundreds of miles in them mostly on the west coast of Newfoundland but also here on the east coast of Nova Scotia. They are are a very popular and sought after boat in Atlantic Canada. They retailed for around $6500 back in the 70's and used today fetch between $3000 to $6000 and maybe a little more depending on condition and accessories. I wouldn't hesitate to coastal sail to the intercoastal and go on down to Florida and to the Islands in one with the above mods.
    P.S. we always refered to them as 19 or 20 footers.They also produced a 16footer and i believe produced a few 30 footers but don't know if they were Halmans or Nordicas. Geo.
     
  13. glsailing
    Joined: Jan 2011
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    glsailing Peter

    I have owned and sailed a Nordica 16, early '90's, and still sail on a friend's Nodica 16 on Colpoy's Bay, Bruce Peninsula.

    I liked the sailing capability of the Nordica 16 a lot. And therefore bought a Nordica 20, also back in the '90's. And yes I did like the stability of the Nordica 20 but on one occasion I wanted to sail back to my home harbour, after having been on a broad reach in winds around 17 knots and the waves were in the 4 foot range and this was on Lake Ontario. To make a very long story very short the chimney on shore won the race.

    Thinking about it many years later I must say in defense of the Nordica 20 that it was equipped with a 130% or so roller-furling genoa and a baggy main.

    And I have always wondered if a "performance" jib and a "performance" main would have made a difference and I agree falling off would help as the boat is beamy and the bow seems to be blunt.

    The Halman has a shorter keel and that usually detracts from upwind performance. But the Halman has a bowsprit and therefore the jib can give better sheeting angles.

    I am considering buying a small trailer-able boat such as a Cape Dory Typhoon, very minimalistic, an Alberg 22, or a Halman 20/21 and would consider the Nordica 20. Having sailed on the Pacific, about 100 miles off-shore, I do understand that the waves are not as short and steep as on the Great Lakes. I want to explore the area around Red Rock and Rossport on Lake Superior. The waves we encountered on the Pacific were maybe 16 feet and it was maybe blowing 25+ knots.

    I am trying to get a better feel for the Halman 20/21 and the proof in the pudding would be to sail one in windy conditions, I guess.
    Thanks for the feedback and input.
    Cheers,
    Peter
     
  14. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Geo,
    As I PM'd you, I hope to have internet working again at home today, so I'll update the M&M site soon with the info on your motorsailers.
    All the best.
     

  15. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Peter,they are basically the same boat, as a matter of fact other than the cutaway forefoot, from unconfirmed info the Halman mold was developed from the Nordica mould I.E. the same molds. Being a light boat they are subject to less bite in heavy winds and yes you could have been losing groung, at which time in most lighter displacement, low deadrise vessels it would be time to engage the iron wind.
    Guillermo, thankyou for keeping in touch, have been very busy here just closed down a customers big house reno for the winter and doing maintenance and some mods on our B&B along with trying to sneak in some time on the boat build, as i said have a look at the photos if they fit in with your website's parameters, if not i feel very complimented on your interest, tnx. Geo
     
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