Seaworthiness

Thanks, Mike,

Thoughtful and well written. The comments at the end about the inherently superior collision survivability of a full keel design over a flat bottom fin keel will, I am sure, spark some "lively" responses. That conversation went on for quite a while earlier in this thread.

Another approach might be, perhaps, to build a hull significantly longer than normal for the accomodations desired, with flotation built in fore and aft. A hard sell, I recognize: a fifty footer with the accomodations of a typical thirty six footer. There might be some voyagers who would appreciate the safety of the added flotation. Maybe?

 

Large Pieces of Missing Sailboat Found

This is a follow up to the earlier report posted by Guillermo. The article posted by Mike Johns adds another perspective to the tragedy.

Large pieces of missing sailboat found
Jim Doyle, Chronicle Staff Writer

Friday, March 21, 2008

Scuba divers located significant pieces of sunken wreckage from the missing 31-foot sailboat Daisy in San Francisco's main shipping channel about three or four miles outside the Golden Gate on Thursday, but they did not find the vessel's missing skipper.

The Coast Guard, aided by divers from the San Mateo Sheriff's Department, identified large portions of the vessel's deck, cabin, mast and rigging submerged in 63-feet of water - not far from where the sailboat had last been sighted Saturday afternoon during an offshore charity race.

Investigators said the wreckage confirmed that Daisy met catastrophe on the race course, but there was no sign that it had collided with a commercial freighter, or other object. "It's a significant event in the case," said Capt. Paul Gugg of the Coast Guard, "(but) we were unable to determine cause from what we saw."

What happened to Daisy and its two-man crew remains a mystery. The boat's skipper, retired neurologist Matthew Kirby Gale, 68, of Mill Valley, is presumed to have drowned at sea or expired from hypothermia. The body of his crew member, Anthony Harrow, 72, of Larkspur, was found washed ashore Sunday near Half Moon Bay - still wearing a life vest.

After the Coast Guard cutter Sockeye used side-scan sonar Thursday to help locate the wreckage, the sheriff's divers descended beneath the choppy seas, examining the debris with less than 3 feet of underwater visibility in about 2 knots of current.

Gugg said the sloop's mast was detached - suspended above the shards of cabin and deck, and held in check by wire rigging. Divers, who left the debris in place, found no evidence of a fire or explosion and no indication that the boat has been hit by a larger vessel. But the wreckage showed that the ship's wooden cabin, teak deck and fiberglass pan - or cabin foundation - had been separated from the older vessel's fiberglass hull and keel.

"It appears that the hull and cabin top and pan delaminated. We did not see the hull," Gugg said. "Did it delaminate and sink, or did something happen when it was blown over and sunk and subsequently delaminated? We'd be speculating to say that it came apart first."

Many disaster theories
Any number of things could have led to the disaster. The boat may have hit a channel marker and taken on water so quickly there was no time to call for help. One or both sailors may have been washed overboard. The boat could have been capsized, pitch poled or dismasted by last Saturday's fierce swells and high winds. Or, a breaking wave could have torn a hatch loose or demolished the cabin.

Thursday's underwater search was just one part of a broad investigation by the Coast Guard into the disappearance of the fiberglass sloop. Investigators have also interviewed boatyard workers, ship captains and race officials.

Ships in the channel
Investigators have identified three incoming ships and one outgoing freighter that transited the channel Saturday afternoon and evening when Daisy vanished during the 27th Annual Doublehanded Lightship Race. Three cargo ship captains have been questioned about whether they saw the missing sailboat, and the bows of their ships have been inspected for evidence of a collision. The fourth vessel will be inspected when it arrives at its next port.

The Coast Guard has also inspected seven channel markers outside the Golden Gate for any sign of a recent collision with Daisy, a white boat with green trim. Gugg said there was "no evidence at first blush" of a collision with the buoys, but investigators plan to re-inspect them.

And Coast Guard investigators have questioned electronics experts and other contractors who performed recent work on Daisy to get a better gauge of the vessel's condition before its sudden disappearance.

Built in the early or mid-1970s, Daisy had undergone a recent overhaul at a Sausalito boatyard. But it is unclear whether a marine surveyor had examined its structural integrity in recent years.

 

That sailboat much have been involved in a collision? "Significant pieces".......hard to imagine a boat of this type breaking up in a seaway from the sea state alone.

That piece is excellent Mike. The observations of the author are very good. Of the ideals mentioned several have occurred to as I have refit my own vessel. The most of interest to me is the compartmentalization of the hull skin into lockers to provide a approach to stopping the ingress of water in the event of a hull rupture. I have also considered what I call a 'poor mans' collision bulkhead. This is just a full length bulkhead which is placed one foot aft of the stem and glassed to the hull following the sweep of the stem aft. As it is placed largely in the chain locker, the effect on stowage is negligible. I my sailboat there is a large integral water tank glassed into the hull forward which begins at the water line and goes aft and down. I consider that with my stem lining poor mans collision bulk head carried down to this tank, that I have the boat well protected from a hit forward to floating debris. I don't know about anyone else, but when sailing fast at night in rough conditions I am haunted a bit by the specter of the floating log or ? waiting in the next troth.

 

Amen.

 

Looking for info for the "Keels&keels again" thread, I've found this:

"12 July 2007
What began as a solo sailing trip across the Atlantic for a French schoolteacher on his summer holiday became a near-death experience.

On July 5, Pierre Andre Huglo’s 28-foot yacht, sailing from Dieppe, France, to St. John, Newfoundland, capsized in heavy seas.

He was rescued in mid Atlantic by container ship and taken to Philadelphia. His boat is a Pogo 8.5 (mini transat) called Yum."

http://www.sail.ie/wp222/index.php?paged=4


"PHILADELPHIA (CBS 3) ― A French sailor arrived safe and sound in Philadelphia Wednesday after a harrowing experience on the open ocean.

Pierre Andre Huglo was sailing from France to Newfoundland when his 27.8 foot yacht called 'Yum' was capsized by a massive wave in the Atlantic Ocean on July 5.

The wave snapped the mast before capsizing the vessel approximately 460 miles west of England.

Huglo was trapped inside the overturned boat for an hour and a half before locating a G.P.S. system and satellite phone in a waterproof box which he used to send a distress message.

After climbing onto the hull of his craft, Huglo sat for over four hours before spotting a French aircraft. While the aircraft could not rescue the stranded seaman, the area was marked with smoke signals and a containership, the CAP SPRAY, was notified of the emergency situation.

The ship altered its course from Antwerp to Philadelphia, traveling 70 miles to Huglo's location.

The Frenchman was finally saved after spending over 6 hours on the open sea. The ship's captain, Arnold Waalkes said Huglo was tired and thirsty, but was in otherwise good condition.

French consulate officials made arrangements to bring Huglo home after he arrived in Philadelphia Wednesday.

This was the second time Huglo has tried to cross the Atlantic in his sailboat. The first time he was hit by a whale."

http://cbs3.com/topstories/shipwreck.sailor.yachtsman.2.310285.html

The light and beamy boat remained happily inverted in spite of not having lost her keel.

Cheers.

 

Has Pierre Andre Huglo got the message? - - Will Pierre Andre Huglo try again? - - Keep watching "The adventures of Pierre Andre Huglo" on this channel.........

 

Masalai when i see that boat upside down it reminds me of my Laser dinghy that i used to sail, broad and flat, surely that is not really the kind of boat for an ocean crossing singlehanded? Is this guy mad or stupid?

 

both?

 

My reply is simple, I dont like boats that sink. www.bourneboats.com.au
Cheers from down under Peter Bourne

 

It didn't sink either. Same arguments for multi-hulls. Needs an escape hatch so you can leave and re-enter the upturned hull with some safety, while waiting for that rescue, but would need to be air-locked so as not to lose the trapped air that's keeping it afloat.
Alternatively to mirror Manie's sentiment; pick a more sensible design for the Northern Altlantic. No surprises here.

 

The sloop yacht Bonita, off Bath, Long Island, capsized off Life-Saving Station No. 16, near Barnegat.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9D01E6DC1038E033A2575BC1A9669D94659FD7CF

(Now, look to the date: October 10, 1884)

Bonita seems to have broached and capsized after the boom swung over while dead running in a not so big sea (my guess). A pity not to have any data on this boat.

Cheers.

 

the issue of non righting by these boats particularly with flat deck section, was addressed a couple of years ago by the worlds best Open 60 crowd
Finot amongst others addressed the issue
I t effected me , when Isa Autissier, whom I consider the worlds greatest sailer, went over in the Southern Ocean, and stayed over
i got a call 3am, abt this, from another competitors race HQ, and I sat like a stunned mullet as just a couple of weeks before I was sharing a drink with Isa, in Auckland
I also knew the crew on Smackwater Jack, and entry built in NZ, one tonner I think, she did the Syd ./Hobart, but never got back to NZ, lost in Tasman storm
She was so lightly built, the crew were trying glue deck back on before coming home
Seamanship, ah Seaman do not go to sea in toys, but many top sailers do zakkly that, so are they seaman, ?
By the way, someone mentioned Bergalia , missing, well I tried call his home number, no reply, will keep trying, bit woried

 

I'm worried about Bergalia too. Too long a silence...

 

I am sure he said he had received a large pile of lumber waiting his attention, so from that, I was not surprised at his non-appearance on the net. - - for a while...

 

spoke Max he is ok