Seaworthiness

But, the STIX includes the delta. If you remove that component it is no longer STIX. You can say that a boat has a STIX of 40 or you can say it has a GVIX (Guillermo Version IndeX) of 35. It is not correct to remove components of a rating system and then call the resulting number by the same name. You are altering the formula by removing one of the components that it is based on so boats you don't like have lower numbers.

Not at all, I have always maintained that the ability of the sailor and the boat to avoid extreme conditions is a greater risk reducer than increasing the boat's stability. Now if you can increase the stability without reducing sailing performance, I would choose the more stable boat. If increasing stability means I have to choose between a 125 mile a day boat and a 200 mile a day boat, I would chose the 200 mile a day boat. For my comfort limit of 15,000 pounds, getting 200+ miles a day means a 38ft+ LWL and thus a D/L of under 115. Given those selection criteria, there are probably NO boats that you would find seaworthy.

In countless trial passages using pilot chart data, the faster boat always enjoys better conditions. Shorter passage times reduce risk farther.

The biggest unknown seems to be the location of containers lost from cargo ships. I am not aware of a system that is designed to help a small boat avoid hitting containers. Thus an unsinkable boat with a crash bulkhead makes good sense to me.

If we are to come up with a system to rate the safety of small boats at sea, it seems to me that risk reduction in design should address the most common causes of loss of life and property. Design elements that reduce the chance of going overboard, or sinking, should have greater weight than those that deal with lower probability events like capsize.

 

Compare to the Class40 boats that are still racing in 50+ breeze (as they are designed to do)...

 

Yes the pool maintenance guy altered the boat and was asleep while the boat sailed into the storm ... while less that 200 miles away a 28foot boat sailed merrily on.

This photo rather makes my point. When a novice goes to sea, NO boat is safe. When a good sailor is faced with the same weather information, she managed to avoid the storm in a 150 mile a day boat ... think how much father away and safer she would have been in a boat that could make 200+ miles a day.

 

Whatever you say: STIX, SMYX, GVIX or ASTERIX...It's low!

Exactly.

Probably not, I agree.

I see you're an speedy guy Let me quote for you a funny old spanish song (A 'Chotis', the typical Madrid songs style, from 1920 or so, I think):
"Lo que antes te tardabas de 'La Bombi' al centro de Madrid en un simón, te lleva a Nueva York un aeroplano y...¿Qué haces tan temprano en Nueva York....?"

App. translation: What before took you to come from 'La Bombi' (a park in the outskirts of Madrid by then) to the center of Madrid on a 'simón' (horse cart), an airplane takes you to New York, and...what the hell do you do so early in New York...?

Cheers.

 

Some interesting excerpts from the log of Sir Robin Knox-Johnston at the first leg of the Velux 5-Oceans race. Yachting World, march 07 issue.

"...There was an enormous lurch at about 0120 and the boat was knocked down on her side by a wave. I expected to fall backwards but it was no more than about 90º..."

"...You would not want to be around this boat at the moment. During a sqall we did a Chinese gybe. The mainsail had swung back and hit the runners and broken every single batten..."

"...we have become dependant of electronic aids. We all have been shamed into thinking we must have this stuff, but it is like the Emperor's new clothes -we need to turn back on the producers and say enough is enough, let's have some quality, please, before you sell us your product..."

"...What is not easy is the motion these rather flat-bottomed and wide hulls have. An small angle of heel seems a lot more and when she's thrown by a wave you do need to be holding onto something or you can go flying..."

"...The waves have not gone down; a batten, one of the new repairs, has broken; this computer has gone over-sensitive. The MaxSea programme has lost my polars and the gennaker sheet broke loose and went over side, scientifically wrapping itself around the starboard rudder...."

"It was much easier 38 years ago -no messing around with technology. They said I was missing for four-and-a-half months and prepared my obituary, but I always knew where I was. It was different in Suhaili -I remember we once hit seven knots! With these Open 60 yachts you hit 28 knots- I'm very impressed. They are remarkable boats, very exciting to sail, although you have to work hard to get on top of them."


Something for the thinking when bringing this kind of designs and technologies into cruising boats.

 

Ah Suhaili ! If only all boats were like that, eh?

Oh hang on. Wasn't that the one in 1989 that was knocked down four times and lost its mast in the North Atlantic because its crew of four couldn't manage to take the proactive measures necessary to stabilise the boat (towing warps), and left to its own devices, it didn't have the qualities to look after them without their direct intervention?

And wasn't the skipper a fully qualified master mariner who didn't know how to deploy warps in a survival situation without making a cat's cradle of it?

So, are the lessons here that only boats slower and chunkier than Suhaili should be Cat A and an Unlimited Commercial Master Mariner is below the threshold of qualification needed before you can be allowed to go to sea?

Or are there other lessons we can draw from this? Perhaps one of personal choice? RKJ is quite an old bloke. He wanted to do the Vellux as a life affirming experience. He went into it with his eyes wide open. He's obviously finding it a struggle, as most of us would. But that's the nature of the beast. If you don't like it, don't do it.

But if he was cruising he could have taken the mainsail down weeks ago. I bet he would still make adequate progress, and even under bare poles would still be a better sailing boat than Suhaili.

 

Does that smell to resentment....?


(RKJ capsized twice aboard Suhaili when rounding the world at the Golden Globe, and he radioed: "I am beginning to wonder how much of the original boat I am going to be left with by the time I reach home. So far I have written off the self-steering gear, two tillers, a jib, a spinnaker, half the cooking stove, and the water tank. The cabin has shifted and leaks, and its canvas cover is cracking up.")

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but believe me, I have absolutely no problem with RKJ, or any of the boats he sails. I just think we need to be careful what lessons we try to draw from isolated comments or examples.

Jester / Suhaili / Gipsy Moth etc alway feature on the list of 'good old boats' that somehow represented an era when boats and their sailors were intrinsically better. However an objective look at their records may not reveal quite such a rose tinted picture. Too often, selective interpretation of incidents are being passed off as fact in support of our own boating preferences.

 

Exactly right! It is human nature to justify ones decisions and choices. Some try to deny their bias and call it science.

 

To understand Guillermo mind, I think you must first understand spanish regulations.

It is THE one that if you want to sail over 60 nm from the coastline, you MUST have a category A (Ocean) boat, carry a sextant aboard, and have the highest spanish sailing license. "Capitan de Yate".

For "Capitan de Yate", you have around 10 hours of theorical exams, and 20 hours of practical exams to pass.

The category A is labelled "Designed for extended voyages where conditions may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale) and significant wave heights of 4 m and above but excluding abnormal conditions, and vessels largely self-sufficient." in the 2006 RCD.

This is where has been educated Guillermo. No wonder he has been trained to think that anything smaller than a 10 000 T rescue tug is unsafe.

I do not think also that UK regulation, much lighter, have a worst score in term of safety.

 

Hello all


You may be interested: Papers are invited for RINA’s conference in October at Southampton, The subject is “The Modern Yacht” The closing date for submissions is April 6 2007

Relevant to this thread is a call for papers on such topics as; Performance, Stability, Sea-keeping, Hull motions, Structural design, Hulls, Keels, Rudders , Masts, Rigging, Classification society rules and Materials.

Should be interesting

Cheers

 

Maybe, but they're also looking for speakers with experience of helicopter operations, design of helipads, and integrating hangerage into a yacht with consideration of fire hazards and classification society compliance.

I think I'll wait for the program to be published before getting too excited. I'm not sure whether too much time will be spent on the issues that have been concerning people here! I was also intrigued by a conference notification I got from RINA entitled "The Affordable Warship". Now there's an oxymoron !

Equally interesting is a day next month in Southampton when lots of the issues surrounding offshore shorthanded sailing definitely will be discussed. Although the agenda is crowded, I would like to achieve some clarity on a design rule that produces fun, seaworthy, cheap, attractive, durable, multi use offshore boats that compliment the options offered by Mini 6.5s and the Class 40 / Open 40's. And all done, dusted and agreed before tea!

As a rule option, I have been exploring what happens if you limit LOA (30ft*/9.14m), Draft (6.5ft*/ 2m), construction to Eglass & Polyester and cast iron or steel for fin foil construction, and then let the requirements to meet RCD CAT A and OSR CAT 1 do the rest.

(* 30ft is the smallest acceptable length for the OSTAR and the biggest for the Jester. The 2m draft partly keeps them usable in regular sailing waters but also helps constrain excess is other parameters?

 

You mean like this?:

http://www.fox-tech.co.uk/projects.html

www.minitransat650.com/950 rules 2.pdf

I think this class may just happen.

 

Yes that's certainly one hat that has been thrown into the ring and has also gathered a bit of momentum. However the range of options for a class at this size is probably represented by the Class 9.50s at the high powered end and the Koopman VQ32 at the other.

Whilst everyone is agreed that the jump in offshore race boats from 6.5's to Class 40 is too big, the debate is about how to fill the gap. Mini 6.5's can be seen as little versions of the Open 60's in their complexity and (relative) cost. The Open 50's, 40's and 30's are also scaled versions of the same thing, but never really took off as the savings they represented were limited. Class 40 then came along and offered something radically different in concept and numbers soared as they met a real need.

My concern with the Class 9,50 is that it is again a scaled down version of, this time, the Class 40 with a few further material restrictions. Is this enough to differentiate it from the Class 40's, or do we need to look at something more than just cost cutting if we are to (hopefully) attract another surge in interest in short handed sailing?

30 footers should be the most popular class by far. We need to learn the lessons from the Whitbread / Mount Gay / Open 30 / Figaro classes, etc and make sure we end up with something that is not only financially attractive to the average sailor, but is one he /she wants to sail.

 

Excuse me, but I've also been educated in dinghy and sailboats racing, as well as cruising. And if you have followed my posts, I've defended proper small sailing boats as category A boats. I do not agree with the RCD not categorizing as A boats that have thoroughly proven their seaworthiness through decades.
Cheers.