Scaling Ship Plans

[Lynx_lord]

Hey all, im currently designing my next project and wanted to reach out to those minds with more experience. To preface i am an environmental and structural engineer, specializing in hydraulic and hydrological engineering. I understand the issues scaling plans up or down and that it isnt a simple fixe numerical value. I am working to build a replica of the xebec ships and sadly the only plans i can find are scaled models. Does anyone have any experience in planning these old tall ships or similar? Worst comes to worse ill have to start from scratch but any advice on starting points to help maintain the original handling and esign characteristics is greatly appreciated

 

[Ilan Voyager]

First you need a solid and strong documentation. Boudriot is the specialist of ancient boats and his books are of the highest level, his monographs are among the most precises.
Happily for you he has written with Berti a complete book about the xebec Le Requin built in 1750 with all the carpentry plans et all the details of the rigging. Like all these very technical books it's pretty expensive 135 euros, but you get a complete documentation at the source.
LE REQUIN - Xebec - 1750 - Ancre https://ancre.fr/en/monograph/18-monographie-du-requin-chebec-1750-.html

 

[jehardiman]

Xebec warship or xebec merchant? They are fairly different. And how big a replica? A scaled down xebec is effectively a felucca.
Xpost with Ilan....what he said.

 

[Lynx_lord]

Xebec warship or xebec merchant? They are fairly different. And how big a replica? A scaled down xebec is effectively a felucca.
Xpost with Ilan....what he said.

I am planning to lean towards corsair design. I know about the felucca but im working on building a full scale (around 25 meters in length"

 

[Lynx_lord]

First you need a solid and strong documentation. Boudriot is the specialist of ancient boats and his books are of the highest level, his monographs are among the most precises.
Happily for you he has written with Berti a complete book about the xebec Le Requin built in 1750 with all the carpentry plans et all the details of the rigging. Like all these very technical books it's pretty expensive 135 euros, but you get a complete documentation at the source.
LE REQUIN - Xebec - 1750 - Ancre https://ancre.fr/en/monograph/18-monographie-du-requin-chebec-1750-.html

First you need a solid and strong documentation. Boudriot is the specialist of ancient boats and his books are of the highest level, his monographs are among the most precises.
Happily for you he has written with Berti a complete book about the xebec Le Requin built in 1750 with all the carpentry plans et all the details of the rigging. Like all these very technical books it's pretty expensive 135 euros, but you get a complete documentation at the source.
LE REQUIN - Xebec - 1750 - Ancre https://ancre.fr/en/monograph/18-monographie-du-requin-chebec-1750-.html

Thank you so much!

 

[jehardiman]

At 25m you should be able to get the form and profile that you want. I think that using the reference Ilan stated, giving slightly more WL beam and harder bilges with more ballast to make up GM, you should be able to make a passable replica. A ship this size should be able to mount 2 bow guns and 8 (4 each side) in broadside. This is the typical size of small combatants in the Great Lakes during the War of 1812. Just remember that exact replicas these early vessels have a hard time meeting modern insurance and safety requirements. Be forewarned!

 

[Lynx_lord]

At 25m you should be able to get the form and profile that you want. I think that using the reference Ilan stated, giving slightly more WL beam and harder bilges with more ballast to make up GM, you should be able to make a passable replica. A ship this size should be able to mount 2 bow guns and 8 (4 each side) in broadside. This is the typical size of small combatants in the Great Lakes during the War of 1812. Just remember that exact replicas these early vessels have a hard time meeting modern insurance and safety requirements. Be forewarned!

Any pointers for insurance? Im familiar with safety requirements as fars USCG regs go

 

[Ilan Voyager]

An association in Corsica wants to build one https://www.yacht-concept.fr/uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/20-04-Fiche-Chebec-UK-reduced.pdf
A Galeotta : Sciabeccu Chebec Xebek Sciabecco Bastia Corsica https://www.facebook.com/galeottadiBastia/

Are sure you want to build one? It's a task for very qualified classical naval carpenters and needs a shipyard. Even finding the suitable woods will be a pretty difficult task. And I do not talk about cost because it's in millions of euros. We are talking about merchant or warships rather big, pretty heavy thus pretty expensive.
A more reasonable task is to build like Jehardiman said a felucca, or a traditional work boat with latin sail. There are many types in a lot of sizes in the Mediterranean Sea, with a lot of living associations in Spain, France, Greece, and lot of people able to help you.
You have even sail makers knowing these sails for example Voile latine | Voiles classiques pour vieux gréement | Voilerie https://h-sails.com/fr/voiles-classiques/76-voile-latine.html.
I've joined a PDF in french on the subject edited by the french Ministère de la Culture.
There is a very active association at Sète, a very nice harbor in France VOILE LATINE DE SETE ET DU BASSIN DE THAU
The internet site has plenty of infos and documents VOILE LATINE DE SETE ET DU BASSIN DE THAU – Chantier naval de la Plagette – Patrimoine Maritime Méditerranéen https://voilelatinesete.org/

To have an idea of the smaller and affordable cousins of the Xebec you can find around France and Spain a link to a page of Pinterest. https://www.pinterest.fr/pin/436708495127348400/

 

[Ilan Voyager]

A 25 m Xebec is a 200 tons boat...Counting on an incredible cheap price by kilo of 10 USD finished it's just 2 million dollars and 2 years work of 5 very able naval carpenters accepting very low wages.

 

[Lynx_lord]

An association in Corsica wants to build one https://www.yacht-concept.fr/uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/20-04-Fiche-Chebec-UK-reduced.pdf
A Galeotta : Sciabeccu Chebec Xebek Sciabecco Bastia Corsica https://www.facebook.com/galeottadiBastia/

Are sure you want to build one? It's a task for very qualified classical naval carpenters and needs a shipyard. Even finding the suitable woods will be a pretty difficult task. And I do not talk about cost because it's in millions of euros. We are talking about merchant or warships rather big, pretty heavy thus pretty expensive.
A more reasonable task is to build like Jehardiman said a felucca, or a traditional work boat with latin sail. There are many types in a lot of sizes in the Mediterranean Sea, with a lot of living associations in Spain, France, Greece, and lot of people able to help you.
You have even sail makers knowing these sails for example Voile latine | Voiles classiques pour vieux gréement | Voilerie https://h-sails.com/fr/voiles-classiques/76-voile-latine.html.
I've joined a PDF in french on the subject edited by the french Ministère de la Culture.
There is a very active association at Sète, a very nice harbor in France VOILE LATINE DE SETE ET DU BASSIN DE THAU
The internet site has plenty of infos and documents VOILE LATINE DE SETE ET DU BASSIN DE THAU – Chantier naval de la Plagette – Patrimoine Maritime Méditerranéen https://voilelatinesete.org/

To have an idea of the smaller and affordable cousins of the Xebec you can find around France and Spain a link to a page of Pinterest. https://www.pinterest.fr/pin/436708495127348400/

I appreciate the response! I absolutely am sure, i was and am by trade (prior to a career in engineering) a master carpenter, with heavy experience in every facet from instruments, framing, aircraft construction, boat building, bridge construction, finish work to cabinetry and furniture. I have plenty of space on my property for a ship yard to be installed, and the cost isn't a huge issue. This will be a longer-term project with the goal to do the majority of the work, including sawing the lumber with my mill. It is kinda my retirement project, lol. (im in my late 20s set to be more or less retired by 30). My goalbwould he to complete it by 40. Worst thing that can happen is i fail, but its been my dream to building a tall ship forever and the xebecs habe always facinated me.

 

[Ilan Voyager]

Interesting answer. I you have the abilities, the money around a solid 3 millions dollars, the time, the place, the building crew (it's impossible to build alone), and after the crew to sail it, do it. Buy the Boudriot monograph, open all the 1/48 carpentry and rigging plans and make it at the identical.

 

[BlueBell]

I am working to build a replica

Terminology: "A replica is a high-quality recreation of the original by a small or unaffiliated group. A reproduction is a high-quality recreation of the original by an official source. A counterfeit is a low-quality recreation of the original by a small or unaffiliated group."

Quite the undertaking.

What part of the world is "Rock hill" in, and why isn't 'hill' capitalized?

 

[Lynx_lord]

Terminology: "A replica is a high-quality recreation of the original by a small or unaffiliated group. A reproduction is a high-quality recreation of the original by an official source. A counterfeit is a low-quality recreation of the original by a small or unaffiliated group.

Quite the undertaking.

What part of the world is "Rock hill" in, and why isn't 'hill' capitalized?

Probably because i am really bad at remembering to capitalize it its in South Carolina, just south of Charlotte. The cost initself will take time without a doubt, but it is a goal. I di understand it wont be an exact replica, similar to how the replicas if the Nina, Pinta, or Santa Maria arent exact, however, its a dream.

 

[BlueBell]

Thanks Lynx lord.

South Carolina is in USA (this is a world wide web).

Are you really good at scheduling or does the completion date matter?

 

[Lynx_lord]

Thanks Lynx lord.

South Carolina is in USA (this is a world wide web).

Are you really good at scheduling or does the completion date matter?

Was this a correction? I didnt think about adding USA when i made my account simply since it didnt seem to matter at the time, nor adding it to my response since there isnt another South Carolina. Similarly to if you said you were in Bamburgh or Haarlam, i would have assumed you were in England or the Netherlands, i apologizeif this was an issue. I am really very good at scheduling, but also flexible because stuff happens its about doing it properly and less about time frame.