Scale up a Tornado for Round the World Non Stop

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by MurphyLaw, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. MurphyLaw
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 123
    Likes: 5, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Mars

    MurphyLaw Senior Member

    Here is the design brief.

    You have a Tornado Catamaran foam sandwich GRP mould built, Spinnaker rigged that is soft,cracked and buckled from over tensioned rig. The Boat has been raced to death, but it has top class sails(German Olympic Team) and rigging.

    I want to build a boat capable of a round the world record attempt using this proven design for the record attempt.

    I have experts in using carbon fibre and vacuum infusion/vertical panels foam sandwich construction to help me.

    My plan, without any expert advice, is to scale the original Tornado up to increase it's load capacity and beam by about 1 metric metre, use the original rig, with increased beam and buoyancy and build new hulls using a carbon fibre monocoque structure. No Trampoline, make bridge floor/deck roof with the same curve as an upside down hanging chain. Beam to Beam). I plan to use a curved foil daggerboard design rather than the original Tornado design.

    The design should be about safety and reliability, I have raced A-Class and Hobie's and Tornado's off shore and apart from the A-Class they are all way too overpowered to be an atheist in a storm. I figure a Tornado with an increased beam of 1 metric metre and original sail plan, built like a brick **** house is the way to go, parachute anchor included.

    So if a measure my Tornado up and scale it up until it's beam is 1 metre more and use the original sails and rigging but with an all carbons fibre monocoque hull bridge structure, would this be a safe boat to attempt a record?

    I'm pretty sure the amount I have to scale up this proven design in order to depower it enough for ocean waters would not interfere with its sailing abilities.

    But I'm sure I could be very wrong.....

    As long as I'm dry and I don't die, it's the best design.

    I can get cheap carbon fibre and friends to help with making hulls and forms but I have no money for fancy sails and rigging. I have fancy sails and rigging, it's just I know these original hulls are going to fall apart if rolled end over end.

    MY QUESTION IS :

    Scale a Tornado up for a around the world non stop record, using the original sail plan and rigging by how much ?


    Answers like.

    1. Increase its length by at least 10ft or you will die.
    2. Increase the beam by at least 6ft or you will be sleeping on the roof.
    3. Add another two cubic metre of buoyancy forward of the mast or you will hope to die.
    4. 21.5% I am an expert with 50 years experience.
    5. I have a sister in Alberta who will mend your broken heart.

    Greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Red Dwarf
    Joined: Jun 2012
    Posts: 234
    Likes: 6, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 61
    Location: USA California

    Red Dwarf Senior Member

    I don't think you concept is too wild.

    Check out this 16 foot catamaran. They have traveled thousands of miles in the ocean, mostly coastal.

    http://turtleislands.net/tmc/

    If someone had said they wanted to carry their ocean catamaran on the roof of their station wagon, I would have said they are crazy.
     
  3. Red Dwarf
    Joined: Jun 2012
    Posts: 234
    Likes: 6, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 61
    Location: USA California

    Red Dwarf Senior Member

    Sorry I didn't read your post carefully enough.

    I didn't catch the fact that you want to go for a non-stop circumnavigation record.:eek:

    What record? What route?

    It seems to me that the money saved keeping the same rig is insignificant compared to what it will cost for the record attempt.
     
  4. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 2,936
    Likes: 139, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1593
    Location: Arlington, WA-USA

    Petros Senior Member

    I am no expert at record attempts, but it seems to me such an ill conceived plan will not likely succeed. If you just want to make a fast coastal cruiser, you can make it work. But for world record circumnavigation, I would think it would take a specialized design specific for that use, and even specific to the route you are planning. Go read up on the current record holder's ordeal and their boats, seems to me it will take much more than a beefed up beach cat.

    I am a big fan of low budget record breakers, but to make it work you need to work smart, forgo the fancy equipment, and plan, plan, plan ahead. What you wrote above does not strike me as a sound plan. Do your homework first, and than reconsider the design of the boat you plan to use. Build up a team of people to make it work. You can find a skilled designer with the appropriate skills that will work for little or no money if they are trying to establish their reputation, but you have to find him or her. God knows there are few good paying jobs in recreational boating right now anyway, might as well invest some time to show what you are capable of doing.

    Do your homework, build a team, and than have at it. It will cost you the same to build an up sized Tornado as a boat more appropriate to the task, so find a way to get it designed on a low budget.

    Good luck.
     
  5. MurphyLaw
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 123
    Likes: 5, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Mars

    MurphyLaw Senior Member

    Red Dwarf: non-stop solo circumnavigation via Cape Horn.

    I want to take my existing Tornado as a starting point because its proven design. Something I would risk my life on, but the original build isn't tough enough or safe enough for the job.

    1. I am going to get rid of the trampoline, replace it with a survival pod with a watertight bunk compartment and semi enclosed bridge deck. Use the hulls for storage only.

    2. Construct the pod and bridge out of carbon fibre and infuse the entire structure including the hulls in one infusion. Create a single monocoque structure instead of 2 hulls bolted together with 2 beams.

    3. Insulate the bunk pod and fit parts free-solar heater(using pressure difference and pipe) with emergency electric blanket backup.

    4. The bridge deck and survival pod will be hydrodynamicaly shaped and voids filled with foam to give a large amount of buoyancy, I've noted from sailing the Tornado that the buoyancy in the forward beam tube helps to stop pitch poling if this was a low profile airtight bunk compartment then it would be even more resistant and would also help in righting a capsize(curved top).

    5. I figure if the boat is strong enough and I can stay comfortable it will give me the confidence I need to deal with all the other problems that you are going to encounter now matter what design you choose.

    6. I am sailing 3 times a week off shore in ever increasing winds and seas in an

    (a) A-Class- ;

    Great wave piercing smooth ride and the mast bends and de-powers when you get it wrong, nowhere near enough buoyancy in heavy seas the whole boat can disappear on you.

    (b) Hobie 16. I hate this ******* boat on anything other than flat conditions, it's like riding a bucking bronco at a fair ground, you get to show off and it's a lot of fun but not on a day to day basis. Unpredictable like it's makers, you are never sure whether it's going to surrender on you or fight it out;)

    (c) Tornado:Same as the A-Class but with no off switch, it takes you for a ride......which as long as I can add enough buoyancy and not get swept off will work for me.

    7. I will post some prelim plans of what I intend doing with the Tornado within the next few weeks.
     
  6. MurphyLaw
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 123
    Likes: 5, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Mars

    MurphyLaw Senior Member

    Petros:

    I hear what you are saying, but I have been a DIY enthusiast my whole life and I always find it easier if you don't reinvent the wheel. You take an existing design and improve on it, it's a starting point, something to actually move forward with. Many times you might restart the whole project with a new design halfway through but you need at some point to start making something in order to get people on board.
     
  7. teamvmg
    Joined: May 2008
    Posts: 124
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 22
    Location: christchurch,uk

    teamvmg Senior Member

    You say that the Tornado is a proven design - so why change the design?

    The answer is because it is not a proven design for what you are doing.
     
  8. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 1,896
    Likes: 71, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 739
    Location: New Orleans

    Stumble Senior Member

    Tornado hulls are designed for a very narrow weight range, with most of the weight concentrated outboard for righting moment.

    You are talking about adding thousands of pounds of equipment to a boat that was designed to sail with 3-400 pounds beyond the hulls.

    Could it work? Maybe.
    Could the equipment needed sink the boat at the dock? Likely
     

  9. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 13,618
    Likes: 383, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Figure out the weight of the supplies you need for non-stop circumnavigation and the design will have to accommodate them and you. Tornados and other boats like it are designed for minimal carrying capacity. You want something that is the opposite. Make a list of the requirements (SOR) and compare it to what your idea will provide.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.