scale model of prospective build

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by spaceboy, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. spaceboy
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    spaceboy Junior Member

    Hi all, would it be useful to build a scale model, say 1/12th of the boat you were planning to build? It could be lofted and you would see how things went together. Is this an accepted practise, has anyone done this? Thanks
     
  2. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    What you do today is a virtual 3D model of the ship, scale 1/1, in which you define and checke each and every one of the parts of the structure. Defined this, you have real spaces available on the boat and you can place the engines, equipment, piping, electrical wiring, services, all the furniture, etc.., etc..
    Generally you do not need all these details but the virtual model has the advantage of allowing it, while the model of cardboard or wood is not as versatile. And all this is not expensive at all, especially when compared to the benefits offered.
     
  3. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    When 3d printing becomes possible Im certain that NAs will use this technolgy to educate clients on design details.
    Computers and paper dont work. Clients cant " feel" it . And boatbuilders arent convinced that the concept is buildable.

    Ive worked with newbuilds at first class shipyards and the only way a concept could go from design to build , was a full scale model.

    3d printing will revolutionize this designer, client, production loop
     
  4. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    The client generally is not concerned in how are the frames of the boat or where to put the bilge pipe, but these things are very interesting to the engineer or naval architect and help them to define the boat with precision and anticipate many problems. From that point of view the "paper" is useless but the 3D model is very valuable.
    When 3D printers can make an object and its skeleton, maybe then they can be used in the engineering of ships.
    Not only large shipyards utilize the latest technologies, there are many professionals who do too.
    I have worked in shipyards in which we did a full scale wooden model but for more than 30 years that is not done in any shipyard, it is too expensive, materials and workmanship..
     
  5. Wayne Grabow
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    Wayne Grabow Senior Member

    Scale models are used / can be used for visualization of esthetics and structures (and of course tank testing). Larger scale models can include more detail and, thus, better feedback. 1/12 scale seems small to me, but it depends on what you want from it.
     
  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Scale Model

    Here is a thread about building a scale model of an 18' trimaran foiler to test various aspects of the design. The model is a little over 5' long and 6'+ wide.
    The emphasis of the testing has evolved from testing a self-righting concept to to testing a new foil configuration:
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/mu...-self-righting-trimaran-test-model-36058.html
    The bigger the actual(RC?) model you build relative to the actual boat the better the results will be. Many major designers have done radio control model testing.
    Good luck with your project!
     
  7. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member


    I dont mean a full scale model of the entire ship, only details.

    You propose a nesting stem drop anchor system. You sketch it out then ask the shipyard how much this detail will cost and whether it is build able. They dont know!

    If the builder doesnt know if its build able and cant give a cost, you as NA cannot secure approval from the client to proceed.

    This stem launch had to be scale built out of ply before the client said yes to the 90 thousand dollar accessory

    http://[​IMG] sube
     
  8. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Of course, scale models have their uses and are essential for tank testing. I was thinking more on the constructive aspects when talking about full scale model.
    Michael, something like this can be useful
     

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  9. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    If 3 d printing had been available, a scale model could have been provided to the shipyard for comment and costing, then the scale model could have been provided to the client and he could see and feel and operate it ...then approve the expense.
     
  10. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Yea, i believe that in a few years 3d printing of prototype components will be an important tool for NAs
     
  11. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Michael,

    Are you talking about 3D Full Scale models?

    We do small area full scale all the time, but the biggest area is typically 6' x 2' x 1'.

    I have a 1/6 scale wing tip to tip sitting over my desk.

    The detail is good enough to see ~ a 1/4 inch bolt head (hex). It was made in 1/4 sections and assembled via features specifically put into the cad model to locate each section.

    3D printing is here right now in a useful fashion, but probably not a full 20' to 200' model.

    For the drawing you showed above, we would probably make the moving parts full scale with pieces of the mounting structure mounted to a plywood base (first model). Then the complete structure in 1/4 scale to get the proportions, access, and build sequence (second model).
     
  12. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    It might not need to be full scale. Simply large enough to demonstrate a concept and discover facts about human ergonomics and how the piece of equipment will be used.
    Somehow a designer will have to transport his concept to a trade fair then demonstrate it to possible clients.

    Printed models sound like the best way to do it
     
  13. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    I think the capability is here right now.
    Don't know the actual price, but another company has desktop sized printers shared by a group of designers. About 1 machine per 5 designers I was told.
    My company is not that forward thinking, but.....

    Just had a friend leave the company to go to work for this company, and we have several of their machines.
    http://web.stratasys.com/En_consumer_goods-PPC-LP.html?cid=70130000001stsN&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Search%20-%20US%20-%20Prototypes&utm_ad=Additive%20Manufacturing$A2902&gclid=CKHv0522uLoCFcnm7AodhycAvw

    I have no "financial interest". Its a pity but true.

    The "wing" I mentioned payed back within 1 day. We had a normally very competent manufacturing engineer insisting on a costly mistaken assembly plan and associated equipment and tools. I brought the model in to his office, pointed to the area we were discussing, and he saw what was needed instantly. I can't estimate the months and $100K's that would have been wasted.
     
  14. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Space,

    Sorry they got lost and digressed.

    YES. What you ask is (1) done often and (2) teaches you a lot about your full scale build.

    Most of the time, you do not want anything smaller than about 6 to 8 feet. Too small and (1) water 'tank testing' is not as valid .... and (2) what you learn is not as valid when scaled up. I think it was Richard Woods who mentioned that as a boat doubles in size, it quadruples in complexity, cost, and materials.

    So, a 1/6 is more valid than a 1/12, and a 1/4 is much more valid - even if you do not build everything out as faired as you might on the final.

    Wayne
     

  15. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I think it's absurd to learn 3D modeling software, just to get a feel for a prospective build. The 3D model will not tell you anything about the build, from a hands on view point, which is the usual point of a real model.

    As scale model is a good idea and one often employed. You get a feel for the shapes and a look at the techniques to assemble them. Pick a logical scale, one that's big enough to offer some information, say 1.5" to the foot. This is 1/8th scale, which can be convenient in terms of materials and practicality.
     
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