Sales Figures for Sailboats Take Big Hit

I hear ya.

But China also has the advantage of eternally cheap labor. If you don't like your pay or working conditions and have the temerity to try to do something about it, there is a bullet waiting for you.

But, say what you want to about China. That it's a dictatorship. That it is corrupt That its leaders are entirely unaccountable. All probably true.

But there also appears to be some serious long term thinking going on there.

They are moving toward alternative energy with a vengeance, I hear.

Meanwhile, here in the good ole USA, we can't put wind turbans off shore because rich people have their homes on the shores there and think they should not have to look at them.

It's like they think they own the lake too, or even the ocean. Come to think of it, maybe they do.

That's democra$y for you.

Talk about being hopelessly behind the times.

I think, as far as sailboats go, rentals should be considered.

Also, boats that have very short set up and take down times would be a big improvement. If the things could be stored in a warehouse when not being used, the amount of harbor space needed could be cut down drastically.

Think about it. Most of these sailboats are used maybe 10% of the time, max.

The rest of the time, they just sit there, parked.

And remember, bottom paint, though absolutely necessary, IS a pollutant.

As much as I love boats, I can understand the criticism that valuable waterfront property is being taken up for little more than nautical long term parking lots.

 

Just reading through these posts I find it interesting that the conversation seems to largely come from two directions.

1. Inequality of Wealth
2. Taxation

Hoyt, it's certainly understandable that from the luxury boat builders point of view the additional taxes on boats levied in Fla over a certain price seems unfair.

On the other hand I can see more and more angst verbalized here and elsewhere regarding the huge inequality in wealth that has occurred here in the US and to a lesser extent in developed Europe and Asia. But especially here in the USA.

According to statistics from the Federal Reserve the top 1% of Americans (in terms of net worth) control approximately as much wealth as the bottom 90% of the population.

To put it in perspective that means that the richest 3 million Americans are worth roughly the same as the bottom 270 million. Roughly.

How about the decendents of Sam Walton founder of Walmart? The Walton Family is estimated to be worth $80,000,000,000.00 net. Yep, $80 billion. Thats roughly the same as the net worth of the "poorest" or bottom 40% of the US population, some 120 million people.

One family vs. 120 million people.

How long do you suppose that these trends can continue before there is a major disintegration of our social fabric?

As for the boats.....maybe a boat tax is unfair. Maybe the deck has been stacked against the vast majority of Americans as well.

You know something though? I'm becoming more and more afraid of what the future holds for all of us. I hope I'm wrong, boy do I hope I'm wrong......

MIA

 

It doesn't help that the very people levying high taxes are themselves wealthy tax cheats aka Charlie Rangels et al who think the laws they write are for the "little people" of whom they are not a part.

 

I hear ya.

Hypocracey is indeed the greatest luxury.

I heard a story on the radio that I could hardly believe. It was so surreal.

It involved Ted Kennedy, his schooner yacht, and one very bothersome inflatable powerboat.

The powerboat was heckling the yacht because its owner was trying to block the placement of a wind turbine in the harbor from which it was to help power the local community.

The Kennedy 'cottage', it appears, faces into that harbor and the ugly wind turban would be plainly in its view.

Now Ted Kennedy is one I have always admired, as have most 'liberals', but the bothersome inflatable powerboat was driven by none other than a member of Green Peace, an outfit also admired by us 'liberals'.

Go figure.

 

I hope this is an attempt at a joke. Otherwise it is typical ignorant, xenophobic behavior that is so prevalent here in the USA.

I have worked with partners in China for more than 20 years. I typically visit 4 times a year, for a minimum of 2 weeks per trip. If all my trips are added together I have spent more than 3 years of my life in China, most of that time walking production lines in factories.

The workers in China have been in the driver's seat for the past 5 years or so. There is a shortage of factory workers in some of the historic production areas due to new manufacturing opportunities nearby the worker's home towns. Wages have more than doubled recently, and factories are engaged in bidding wars for labour.

Workers sign a contract for a year at a time, but they can leave anytime and only lose their bonus money.

We have worked with NGOs and Gov't agencies to ensure workers have rights, to the point it is harming our business. Workers want to work as many hours as possible, to make as much money as they can, so they can pursue their goals. Our agreements with NGOs and industry partners force us to limit the hours any person can work in our factories on a weekly basis. So our factories lose workers to other factories who will allow additional hours and more pay. The only way to compete is to pay higher wages for less hours.

The typical Chinese factory worker today outperforms their USA counterpart in output and quality. As an example, a container that my factory in China hand loaded in less than a half hour took almost 3 hours to unload in Arkansas.

It would have taken even longer, since the foreperson decided the group needed to take an early lunch when they had only two or three pallets worth of goods left to unload. After I told them to go ahead, I would finish the unloading myself, I was told that would not be acceptable to the Union. A cooler head prevailed in explaining to the team the fact that the truck driver still had to drop the container off, then drive all the way to Tennessee that evening. Since he was also a Union brother they went ahead and finished the job before lunch, to help him on his way.

 

OK, Paul, I stand corrected.

It's just those images of Tianamen Square that keep haunting me.

And other bad news from China that seems to come at an almost daily basis.

About tainted milk. About poisoned toys. About Semi private prisons for anyone who dare raise a stink about anything. Including their kid being killed by the poisoned milk.

About these one year contracts. Who enforces them. Is there such a thing as an honest court in China (not owned and controlled by the single party there)?

I am sure we both have wildly divergent views of China.

And we both have vested interests in holding those views.

I am glad you took me to task on this. Or I never would have found out about this worker shortage (in a nation of 1.20 billion people, no less). Or these one year contracts.

Now. To further my education. How much are these workers, who have doubled their pay, making?

Could you live on their income in the good ole USA?

I am sure the people of China have made great strides in their standard of living. But I can't help thinking it has been mostly at our, non union, working stiff expense. All I have to do is look around, see all the unemployment around here, then see all the stuff that used to be made here that is now made in China.

Are we to become more like China? A one party capitalist state? Where only 'little guys' who screw up really get punished? Come to think of it, maybe that's what's already happening.

Maybe good for you. But is it good for me?

 

I wonder if the videos of arrests and beatings of "dissidents" nearby political conventions here in the USA in the past 10 years also haunt you?

Really? Almost daily? Moreso than "bad" news regarding companies here in the USA?

Yes, horrible. One company did it, cut costs and caused problems. The guilty have been punished.

Maybe you remember some other issues with powdered milk and infant formulas, from companies not in China?

Perhaps you have even heard the term "Jalisco Cheese"?

This was maybe the most overblown story I have ever heard of. No one was poisoned by any toys. Some items failed the lead content limits in the paint. A child could have eaten ALL of the tainted paint on any of the toys in question and not been harmed by it, other than being sick from eating something that is not edible.

Most of the toys that were recalled did not fail, it was done as a precaution.

Really? Someone in the USA pointing fingers at any other country when discussing prisons? Not only do we have terrible policies that keep our prison business booming, but we also have secret gulags across the world and engage in kidnapping and secret rendition.

A lot of this is run by private mercenaries hired in our name. I recall when I was a kid we were taught that US citizens could not legally work as mercenaries (could not join the French Foreign Legion and then come home). I guess things have changed.

Who "enforces" contracts here? Yes, I realize you have been educated by the media that everything in China is corrupt. Must be, they are Reds! Not like here in the good ol' USA, where court decisions are NEVER made to favor a particular political party, or wealthy family, or corporation.

Believe it or not, the government is very concerned about workers rights in China. I should say governments. People in the USA see China as one giant blob of sameness. It is not. It is more like thousands of small "countries" that have a nodding agreement with the central government.

I have no vested interest in holding any view. I know the facts. I don't think you do, and don't know what your vested interest might be.

It doesn't matter if they could live on their income in the USA. What matters is can they live on their income where they live?

The answer is YES. If you check with NGOs like Business for Social Responsibility you will see the idea is not only should minimum wages be for minimum lifestyle, it should include a hefty percentage for savings and purchasing power.

Most of the workers in the factories I deal with make far more than the minimum wage, some double or trple. Most have their own cell phones, shop in the local markets for "designer" clothing, and pretty much live happy lifestyles comparable to their counterparts across the planet. They are mostly from poor farming families, and their wages not only support them but also their families back home.

When I started going to China the workers were mostly girls from ages 16 to about 18. They would come to work to save a dowry so they could go home and marry. Now the mix is more like 50/50 Male/Female, with many in their 20s. They have decided to forgo the farming life of their parents and carve out a life of their own in the big city.

I think the lifestyle and contribution to the world is much more on the side of the average Chinese worker than it is the 4th generation welfare mother in Chicago or Mississippi.

It is not the fault of the Chinese or Vietnamese worker that our production has been outsourced. I'm sure you are happy that the TiVo you bought last year didn't cost $2,000.00.

I don't see much different in the "corruptness" of the USA gov't vs China. I do know that much of what our elected officials get away with would have them retired and probably jailed in China.

Some very high ranking officials have been convicted there in the past few years. So I don't know where you get your info that only "little guys" get punished.

 

Want to see what they are doing to the country so that Paul B can have his stuff manufactured there......have a look here.

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

...hope all the crap is worth it to you mate.

 

Is it worth it to you? Believe it or not, the computer you just used to post on this thread is probably responsible for some of what is shown in those photos. Ditto your TV, stereo, phone, shoes, pens, pots, carpet, auto parts, etc.

I've seen these photos and more. It is horrific. None of the factories we use could possibly be like that, not in the industrial area where we are located. Remember the remark I made about China being like thousands of small countries? Some have pollution requirements similar to the West. Obviously, others do not. I do know the manufacturing we do there does have waste associated with it. It is contained and shipped off to somewhere, maybe some of the places shown in the photos.

The Chinese are not making these polluting chemicals for themselves (for the most part). Many Western companies do business there because they cannot survive in their own countries anymore. There is just too much pollution and waste associated with some of these processes. So WE, the 1st world, gladly turn a blind eye to the realities.

Less than a century ago there were similar sites in the US, the UK, and other industrialized nations. We grew up, shut them down (for the most part), but don't want to know what's really going on. Just make sure we can go into the local store and consume whatever we want at that moment. As an American citizen I can be proud of our standing in the world when it comes to consumption and waste. We're #1, USA-USA-USA...

So feel free to sneer at the people of China when you look at those photos. Then write about how terrible it is on your affordable computer, running through your affordable modem and cable, and walk across your warm carpet to make yourself a cup of tea. Just avoid any mirrors along the way.

 

Paul, you're decimating all the popular (and apocryphal) stories that emanate from the FTU - Fox Turkey Uninformed - a well known and loved US species.

 

Sailboats sales taking a hit...

The current recession - I believe the Yanks started this with their financial collapses not so long ago - is hitting the whole world, and the poorer countries are hit worst. That's the **** having a monetary standard like the US$ instead of real money like gold as a standard, causing others to feel the pain when the USA struggles....

That said, any boat is luxury, doesn't matter if it is a sailboat, powerboat, fishing boat etc etc.
Many a family has a boat of some sorts, some even have a caravan as well, but when the **** hits the fan so to speak, and financial hardship starts, what would be liquidated first into cash? Of course the boat - its costing money and get most of the time seldom used.

Here in South Africa we now have a situation due to the hardship of the worldwide recession that the market is flooded with sellers of boats and very little buyers. It is so bad I had decided to close shop the beginning of this year. Who in his right mind would pay an X amount for a new boat if a as good as new secondhand unit can be obtained for a fraction of the price? Some great bargains are out here if you have cash to burn, and herein lies the problem, very few have.

To make worse, our baboon driven government imposed a lot of new laws on boat owners in effect since September 2009 and about a third (rough estimate on experience) of the boat owner decided to rather sell their pride and joy rather than comply with these laws. On average the cost at the lower end of the spectrum is about 30 -40% the value of the boats (power boats) to comply to the law.
It is a very sad situation in South Africa indeed.

BTW, in a post about five years ago I made a statement that China is an awakening giant and soon to be the new superpower of the world, putting the USA to shame. It is all in the numbers and its starting to happen now.

 

Wherever I go in the world and snap on the TV in the hotel room I always cringe when I see FOX come up. I always wonder if the people of the country I am in base their initial opinion of us on what they see on that channel.

To bring this discussion back to boatbuilding: Back in the 1980s when I worked for a boatbuilder we were in California, a leading state when it comes to environmental issues. We would accumulate our waste acetone and once we had a 55 gallon drum filled we had to call a contract company who would collect it and take it to a dump site in Arizona, since there were no legal dump sites in CA.

So the idea of moving OUR waste and pollution away from our clean hands is not only a worldwide macro issue, it can also be an in-country micro issue.

The worldwide issue is nothing new. Google Bhopal to read about one instance of how the West uses emerging nations as our toilet.

 

You are looking at the symptoms not the cause. The price of oil tipped the scale. It was particularly acute in the US and was apparent long before the financial problems of 2008 emerged.

China's growth is staggering and has put huge drain on resources. Iron ore export from Australia doubled from 2002 to 2008 and the country was already the largest exporter. All that steel goes into things that consume energy. Things like cars. The Chinese economy is very efficient and can afford to pay more for resources than most other economies because their conversion costs are so low. So they will hold other economies back while they can continue to expand. They just need enough buoyancy in other economies to keep their external markets alive.

Oil is running out. Everyone needs to make an effort to reduce their reliance on oil.

Rick W

 

That's the least of our worries.

Ocean fisheries across the globe are in trouble. The kind of trouble most people don't realize.

Many great species of fish are on the verge of becoming unsustainable, like the Atlantic Cod and Bluefin Tuna.


Maybe worse than that is the clean water issue.


Without oil, fish, and potable water for the inhabitants of the planet boatbuilders are going to be in trouble.

 

We are solving that particular shortage in Australia with massive desalination plants that run on electricity produced by burning coal. We have effectively unlimited supply of coal that just sits under the surface so no water shortage here.

As a matter of interest is there anyone else out there who is aware of the daily water consumption in their house?

Rick W