sailing without being registered anywhere

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by mikakun2012, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. mikakun2012
    Joined: Dec 2011
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    Location: varanasi

    mikakun2012 Junior Member

    Hello,

    i'm french and planning to build for me and wife and kid a sailing catamaran in india for a live aboard & lots of travelling (madagascar-india-thailand-philippines).

    Since we are not indian, and building it privately, it appears that we won't be able to register the boat in India (although we'll be officially declared as resident in India, me having work visa)... unless i set up a business with an indian associate... but it is not a business at all...

    so what happen then ? can we just sail in the sunset without any flag of registration ? is it allowed for a non commercial boat ? does it put us at risk of being arrested in some countries ?

    do you know of any convenience flag that we can get from abroad, like by post ?

    thanks a ton to enlighten me on this, i'm really confused.
     
  2. erik818
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    Location: Sweden

    erik818 Senior Member

    Mikakun,
    I don't know what other countries require, but where I live we don't have to register a non-commersial boat that is shorter than 12 m or less wide than 4 m. I'm not sure if it is possible at all to register such a boat. Other countries have other rules regarding registration, but there is usually a minimum size for the need to register.

    This doesn't answer your question at all. I just wanted to point out that there are numerous boats that are not registered and have the capability to travel between countries. You're not alone. I have not heard that non-registered boats create any problems for Swedes when travelling within Europe.

    Erik
     
  3. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    There are many countries you will get in trouble for not having papers. They will probably confiscate your boat. There are easy countries to register a boat, like the USA, the UK and Canada.
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Paint some sponsorship logos on the side of your boat and enter some races. Most places have exemptions for race craft, though not registering your boat has huge other implications, such as insurance, the ability to "declare", rescue, salvage and service issues, the list could get quite long, not to mention legally costly.
     
  5. mikakun2012
    Joined: Dec 2011
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    Location: varanasi

    mikakun2012 Junior Member

    ok thanks, sounds like i do need registration even in Sweden (6m beam, 12mlong)

    how i'll get it considering situation? what are my options?

    can i take pictures of boat, boat building process, a plane ticket to somewhere they register easy and have her registered while the boat is seating other side of the world ?
     
  6. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    Location: Finland/Norway

    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Just register it as self build in Sweden.. No hassle just fill up the form and pay the fee. IMO
     
  7. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member


    NO--- you will need a UK address for a UK small ships registration.

    If your french what about a french reg
     
  8. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    You wont get far. Ships papers, insurance, safety equipment , radio registration , operator licenses etc ....are required and inspected everytime you clear into a country. Port officials frequently check my papers as I move internally, port to port , in a country.....de rating certificates ?? Officials love paper.

    Ships papers equals tax paid . French flag , VAT, would be expensive. Its possible that you could print up some subterfuge, gobbledygook papers but its a dangerous game. Ive been locked to the dock while legitimate papers are translated. Speak to a specialist about cheap flags of convenience.
     
  9. CDK
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Adriatic sea

    CDK retired engineer

    Register your boat in Delaware Texas through the internet.
    There are lots of boats here with DL registration, none of the owners have ever set a foot in the US, but fear the local tax inspectors because they don't want to disclose where the money came from.
     
  10. yachtie
    Joined: Mar 2012
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    Location: queensland australia

    yachtie Junior Member

    In Australia you must have an international ship registration if you want to sail abroad and before leaving the country, is mandatory to get a custom clearance. To enter Australia you must contact the custom office days before reaching a custom port and on arrival you have to show a custom clearance issued in the last country you came from. Remember the first port of arrival must be a custom port, not just any port. Fail to do so equates to imprisonment and impounding of your boat. Papua New Guinea, New Zealand, most of the Pacific island and Asia have similar rules. To register,You don't have to go there personally, send an e-mail to the department of transport in Au to register your boat in Au if you like, It used to cost about $600, it might be more now but it will last for all the life span of your boat and there are no other fees. No, sailing internationally is not that cheap unfortunately: every country you sail to will dip there hands in your pockets robbing any think between 200 and 400 dollars in custom or quarantine fees. Do not get discouraged, live aboard is cheap as long as you keep a distance from marinas. Is what I'm doing for a long time.
    A bien tot
     
  11. mikakun2012
    Joined: Dec 2011
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    Location: varanasi

    mikakun2012 Junior Member

    thanks all of you, i'm far less confused now, I was wrongly scared i would not be able to register the boat if the Indian would not let me register it in India.

    have spotted a couple of companies doing offshore registration http://www.ukincorp.co.uk & http://www.myyachtregistration.com with plenty of countries registration including delaware.

    so options are plenty, relief.

    means anchorage as well ? you cannot anchor anywhere if you haven't been through custom ? even if you don't set foot on land ? tough one
     
  12. erik818
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    Location: Sweden

    erik818 Senior Member

    I Googled the problem since it's relevant for me as well. Within EU the authorities are mostly concerned about VAT getting paid. If you import a vessel to EU you will have to pay VAT within EU. As a EU citizen (more correctly: Citizen of a EU member state) I think that you will have a hard time to avoid paying VAT if you intend to travel within EU with the boat. A boat registration does not prove that VAT has been paid, you need to prove that separately.

    Many EU countries allow citizens of any EU country to register a boat. Sweden is said to have high fees and our VAT is high. Malta and Germany have been recommended. Cyprus has the lowest VAT. You will have to look at how to minimize the VAT you will have to pay rather than look at the lowest fees.

    For international travel you need a boat registration (since according to a UN agreement you must have a flag state), and you also need insurance papers. It's unclear at which boat size these requriements kick in but I wouldn't take any chances regardless of boat size.

    If you don't intend to travel in the EU there are flag states like Panama with open ship registers.

    Erik
     
  13. mikakun2012
    Joined: Dec 2011
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    Location: varanasi

    mikakun2012 Junior Member

    thanks Erik,

    i don't think we'll ever go to europe or at least as long as gulf of aden is pirate land...but i'll keep that in mind+my wife is japanese so as long as we sail EU with her on tourist visa & boat on her name we would be fine, wouldn't we?

    also i saw there are maybe ways with delaware to have your name appearing nowhere at all while still being in full control of ownership. Then they cannot ask you vat can they ?

    tough work to get free of their bureaucracy and tax craziness in this world... but i guess that's exactly the aim.
     
  14. Northman
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    Location: Norway

    Northman Junior Member

    VAT has to be paid in the first EU port you enter, so don't do it in a country with high VAT. Then again, VAT is the least of your problems. If you want to import a boat from outside the EU, you are required to get a CE-approval. Officially this has to do with safety standards, in reality it is nothing but protectionism.

    For both registration in an EU state ship register as well as for insurance, the boat has to be CE approved. Believe me, you don't want to go in that direction! And don't ask how I know :mad:
    The good news for Mikakun is that you can visit EU ports without a CE approval, but you cannot register (import) it.

    Good luck all the same!

    Walter
     

  15. mikakun2012
    Joined: Dec 2011
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    Location: varanasi

    mikakun2012 Junior Member

    so they ask vat only if you register the boat there ?

    so if you're there with a panama, delaware, whatever flag, you're free to wander around ?

    nb:in france (at least?), if you build in france you can have it register as home-built and only if you want to sell it within the 5 next years you'll need a CE approval
     
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