Rudder help 4 robberts 53

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by 42 below, Nov 22, 2006.

  1. 42 below
    Joined: Nov 2006
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    Location: New Zealand

    42 below Junior Member

    Hi all from the land down under!
    I was wondering if any one had plans or if they could help with a wee problem of modifying our rudder?
    We just bought this big 56 foot steel robberts on the dry which has a few issues with keel and rudder. The rudder and skeg have been bashed and are quite out of shape and I was thinking I would cut them off and use a swing rudder design with no skeg.
    I guess there may be some issues with this but I would love to hear what you all have to say.
    Thanks:
     
  2. Tzuriel
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Location: Houston

    Tzuriel Junior Member

    Hi,

    I don't have any advice for you, but I sure would like to know if you have photos of your boat. This is one that I'm considering building and always looking for more photos and comments about it.
     
  3. 42 below
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    42 below Junior Member

    Yip have photos would send them but finding it hared to up load on this site.
    do you have a e address and I will send them to you.
     
  4. MikeJohns
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    For this modification some internal modification is required since the rudder stock bearings have to carry the full moment of the load originally spread between the upper and lower bearing .
    Rudders are protected and supported by the skeg and you might be better advised to beef the skeg and its support so that the vessel will take the grounding better next time. Also your sail balance is set up for that skeg area.

    Note that many of Roberts skegs are less than ideal in their supporting structure (Something the designer is aware of).

    Your best advice is to contact the designer directly since they have the original analysis and are aware of unforseen issues. www.bruceroberts.com

    I would like to see a picture of the damage engden@aapt.net.au

    Cheers
     
  5. Tzuriel
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    Tzuriel Junior Member

    Great, it's houston.sail at gmail dot com.
     
  6. 42 below
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    42 below Junior Member

    Thanks Mike, I have talked to Roberts about this and they have a solution for the problem.
    I thought I would see if anyone has taken this course before and maybe get some info before I commit to the Roberts formula
     
  7. boltonprofiles
    Joined: Oct 2005
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    boltonprofiles Senior Member

    Hello 42 below,

    Just a note to say obviously you will have the answer with Mr. Roberts advice but sometimes beefing up the skeg can potentially harm the superstructure if it is in a collision again and is not always the best way.

    Paul.
     
  8. 42 below
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    42 below Junior Member

    Thanks mate,
    We are taking our time with this one but it would appear we are in good shape.
    Would like to hear of any ideas though!
     
  9. boltonprofiles
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    boltonprofiles Senior Member

    Sorry meant hull integrity not superstructure, half asleep...............
     
  10. Cheesecutter
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    Location: burnett Heads. Qld. Aust

    Cheesecutter Junior Member

  11. boltonprofiles
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    boltonprofiles Senior Member

    Hello Cheesecutter,

    Don't forget there are two Bruce Robert's web sites, one the original designer and one an offshoot of the same. The two don't see eye to eye with the problem being that the one you are talking about has allegedly out dated and ripped off designs. The original desinger is at www.bruceroberts.com (without the au).
    The designer's photograph must be on the start page of the site or it is not the original Roberts.

    Don't know which type this boat is?

    Paul.
     
  12. Cheesecutter
    Joined: Dec 2006
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    Cheesecutter Junior Member

    Read this Paul
    Answers to allegations from competitors website

    Although we find this distasteful we now find ourselves, after six years of silence, in a position where we have to defend ourselves from the fictitious, scurrilous and malicious remarks made on our competitors boatbuilding website.

    The original Bruce Roberts company was founded in 1968 by Bruce Roberts-Goodson and Andy Slorach in Australia. In 1972 Bruce left Australia and concentrated on the US market. In 1994 Andy Slorach retired, selling Bruce Roberts International to naval architect Bill Ingram. In 1998 Phil Hogg and Liz Thompson acquired the business. In 2000, after a number of disputes, Bruce Roberts and Bruce Roberts International parted company. In 2003, Paul Taylor, an accomplished steel boat builder, who had just finished three Roberts Waverunners the previous year, joined the company.

    Bruce Roberts International has been in Australia for 38 years. We have never claimed to have personally been associated with the company for all this time although our names are on plan records, as purchases and builders, from the mid seventies.

    Our plan portfolio was purchases legitimately, through legal channels. Every plan sold by this office since 1971 has a sail number (sailboats) or hull number (power boats). These numbers for the various designs have run unbroken since then. We hold these records still.

    There is nothing wrong with the plans we sell, they are not 'pirated' or 'unsafe' and to call them so is misleading and irresponsible. Vessels built from these plans have proven themselves in seas and oceans all over the world. Many of the designs we sell originated in the seventies and eighties. These have withstood the test of time. The Longboat 21, designed by Barry Long; the R341, designed by Graham Shannon; the WR 40/42 designed by George Love are timeless examples of excellent hull designs that have withstood the test of time. The list of plans described as 'out of date' and 'no longer supported by designer' is a list mainly created because Bruce Roberts-Goodson does not have these plans. We hold all the original plans, back to 1968, along with all updates, in our offices in Australia. If someone has bought a second hand vessel with the Roberts name then we will still have the plans for it and offer support if need be.

    We have never lost our credit card merchant account. We have an impeccable record. For a time we did not accept credit cards on our secure email form due to our web-server changing there policy and no longer supporting credit card acceptance. We are at present in construction of a shopping cart which will enable us to accept major credit cards using PayPal. (This is now complete and ready to use)

    There are a number of plans designed in the late eighties/early nineties where we do not have the computer files. As we bring these up to date they will be converted to this format.

    You, the buyer has the choice. You can buy from either of us if the boat of your dreams is on both sites. There may be slight variances but basically both sets of plans will be nearly identical. We believe we offer excellent service and you are better buying the plans from us but the decision is entirely yours.
     
  13. boltonprofiles
    Joined: Oct 2005
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    boltonprofiles Senior Member

    I am not taking any sides Cheescutter, only that we could post all day on correspondance between the two, in other words a similar letter from the original Roberts to say otherwise.
    What I would really like to know is, from experience, how both Companies' clients have found them and their designs.

    Paul.
     
  14. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Australia

    waikikin Senior Member

    Paul, Bolton profiles, I've had experience with an Almarine kit supplied by the Aust dealer & communication with the "real" Roberts in regards to this kit for a Bermuda 485/495, it was around 5-6 years ago when the "uncool vibe" of the "situation" came to my attention during fabrication of this vessel. After all the dust settled it seems to me that Phil is a pretty genuine sort of bloke put in an awkward situation, Bruce responded to questions promtly(overnight by email) & offered tech backup to the owner builder at no cost, so both of these partys have worthwhile qualitys. I was one of the sub contract fabricators employed in construction of the vessel, & it came to light soon after delivery of the kit that there where a few issues to be rectified with it, for which the Aust end paid for to be made right. In the end the owner got a fine strong vessel.
    In regards to the skeg on this boat, the internal framing seemed nearly absent in the kit parts presented to us so a web floor over the skeg was added in conjunction with internal framing to the skeg to be roughly equivelent to the scantlings of other designers vessels we had encountered of this size. Regards from Jeff.:)
     

  15. Cheesecutter
    Joined: Dec 2006
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    Location: burnett Heads. Qld. Aust

    Cheesecutter Junior Member

    Paul.
    I dont have to defend Phil.He`s big enough to this for himself but as you say he seems a genuine sort of a bloke and I think he is.He goes to a lot of trouble looking after all Robert boat builders whether they bought the plans from him or not.He has also had several problems with the Dutch kit suppliers and he fixed them at his own expense, even a Spray kit here at Burnett Heads which was sold by the previous owner of the business.
    He also redesigned the rudder on the Mauritius 43 .Made it vertical shifted it aft and put balance on the rudder.Several boats have been fitted with the new rudder.It made a huge differance with handeling the boat
    Actually I talk to Phil about every night.At present he is about 100mls NE of Opua after sailing non stop from the Marquisas.Last year Phil and Liz did the NW passage but thats another story.
    Fred
     
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