row/sail/motor expedition craft

Based on your existing fleet, I would go with a narrow, light, sail, covered canoe/tri. Meade Gougeon built the ultimate example and sailed it solo several years in the Everglades Challenge -the last time he was 79. B&BY built a more pedestrian stich and glue version with input from Meade. They never followed up with selling a design or kit, but he did film most of his Florida Challenge. Take a look at the videos and see how easily he covers distance. They don't look brilliant, but pound for pound they provide the fastest average speed with the greatest ease, safety, and versatility.
-I am disregarding your 'row' requirement for the moment with the intention of comparing all the human propulsion methods -double paddle, single paddle, peddle prop, peddle flipper...
-This doesn't have a good side by side sleep aboard option -it does have a good head to head sleep aboard. I am no expert on bears but a bit of water is not a defense I could sleep on.
-I am interpreting "fast" as averaging 7knots easily sailing and 4knots easy (heart rate ~120) under one human power carrying two humans total weight through 90% of conditions.

Canoes - Expedition Sailing Canoe - B&B Yacht Designs (bandbyachtdesigns.com)

 

Is there any reason to keep sleeping arrangements side-by-side? Perhaps, with two rowers, head-to-toe bunks in a tri would keep her light for rowing and big enough to sail without compromise for performance.

Soft cabins may also help with living/ sleeping/ weather arrangement.
-Will

 

generally a boat with too many compromises is comprimised...

you quoted me without the main remark which was to prioritize the everything boat among its capabilities so that if it doesn't do something as well; hopefully that is a lower priority; like perhaps sleeping side by side to reduce beam and make rowing easier, or if rowing was less important than sleeping side by side; the tradeoffs are understood and known..

 

Of course. It was an excellent point.

I wasn't trying to reply to the quote so much as remind the reader of these thoughts and stimulate a flexible viewpoint. I hope I haven't offended anyone.

-Will

 

The long timers here know the drill -"Give us the SOR and we will tell you what the best boat is." And "mission creep" results in long fruitless threads.

I think we are saying the same thing, but I still would handle this uniquely because it is a human powered, so more is not better.

High performance for human power means weight and volume are critical. Propulsion ergonomics are so important that the propulsion means is linked to boat size and shape. When evaluating designs I always ask the question, how much of this boats mass and volume are only used to carry itself and what is left for the user and cargo? Does this feature take too much effort or attention when in use, or too much space when not in use? Another aspect is how enjoyable is this to use? And for how long?

 

right! This is why one must critically understand the rowing wishes. Does he wish to row 30 miles in a day or 3 miles or 0.3 miles puttering around fishing

 

Wayne,
You don't mention how much experience you have with boom tents.

I spent a lot of effort rigging up a Wayfarer dinghy for dinghy cruising, and it all worked beautifully on the driveway.

What the travelling light, dinghy cruisy fraternity never tell you is if it rains all day, and you get to your camping destination, the process of somehow rigging the tent, getting the cooking stuff out etc. While keeping vaguely dry is pure fantasy. Basically if it gets windy( so you get wet) or it rains a lot you will wish you stayed home!

I rapidly upgraded my (16foot) Wayfarer for an only slightly larger Swift 18, that has a dry, cosy cabin to get into at the end of the day.

Trailability, launch ability sailing performance all comparable, but being able to have somewhere large( ish) and dry ish to put stuff, a proper cooker, lights, radio etc. And somewhere dry to sit at the end of a long, wet day is transformative! It's still lift keel so pulls up the beach into ankle deep water.

I guess the downside for you of a microcruiser is unless it's only got a small cuddy up front you can't row it. I can't row my Swift 18. I have set up the outboard well for a Hobie mirage drive with remote lines and pedals forward. But I've not tried it yet so can't report on speed. I'd guess 2.5 knots max! Just for getting on or off a mooring or for when it's glass calm.

But rather all that than the misery of a rainy week under a boom tent!

 

thanks.
I have no or little experience with boom tents, but a lot of experience trying to camp ashore in this coastal rain forest we live in, so i agree a cabin of sorts is a plus..
I have had extensive experience in some of the largest white water rivers run commercially. where i worked as a guide for 20 years. i am reasonably confident that even a small wave coming over the bow will wash away anything thats a soft shell- which granted wouldnt be erected while underway.

I really need this boat to row and sail well, so thats the primary focus here.
many thanks mate!!

 

a very good question, yes- row /sail 40 km to the fishing grounds, then puddle around a bit fishing( trolling) spend a night out, and row sail home.
many thanks

 

very sensible approach, thank you!
beautiful boats!!!
to elaborate on your points, yes on the -"I am interpreting "fast" as averaging 7knots easily sailing and 4knots easy (heart rate ~120) under one human power carrying two humans total weight through 90% of conditions"
i really liked the options offered where the two passengers could sleep head to head.
i wasnt think that the side by side would be perfect, but simply a necessity- where 5' beam should have sufficed.
but maybe a two in line system would be a lot better. definitely a positive change in my thoughts, which have been brought about by the answers to this thread.
so deep gratitude to all!

so if we relook at it, what are your thoughts on a two in line "sleeping" arrangement. with hard shell "accommodations", with the row and sail expectations to your specs

 

excellent!!!!!!

 

I am a fisherman at heart. If I were building a row/sail; it'd be a pedal powered vessel so my hands were free to fish.

 

ok , so based on this design as a kicking off point.
1.would it be feasible to extend the main hull enough, keeping the amas, same sixe and position so that two rowers could operated aft of the amas
2.i could see the fore cuddy as the main cuddy, storage
3.the dog house would be smaller in volume with the majority of the legroom extending under the self bailing floor of the cockpit- that may need a wee bit more beam aft- maybe some kind of a wineglass type transom, just affording a wee bit more than squeeze room.
4.maybe if the companion way slider is also a small pop-top just to give some headroom for food prep etc.

knowing full well that these accommodations are not going to be grand or luxurious, but spartan , barely comfortable and simply useable.

many thanks
all

 

Skyak, i honestly dont know if there is ever any real protection against bears.
i am from Africa originally, and bears concern me way more than lions, leopards, or elephant, all of which i have had extensive experience with when working up on the Zambezi river in Zimbabwe.
water , per se' is no obstacle to a bear, but i have yet, to see them swim out to a boat anchored hundreds of feet off the beach, to climb aboard.
now i am absolutely sure there are a few documented cases of this, somewhere, but its a far reduced risk when compared with trying to camp on the beach
thanks!!

 

The only way I can think of to do something like this would be to keep the amas as shown and give the forward rower some extremely short oars, like, four feet or so. I don't think it'd be a good idea to just have really short amas at the very end of the boat.

If I were doing this, I'd make the amas longer and center them lengthwise and use kayak paddles. The paddles can be stored on deck or clipped/bungeed to the gunnel so they're out of the way, and weigh less than anything else you could propel this boat with, even counting at least one spare. Plus, you get to see where you're going instead of having to look over your shoulder all the time.