Roll and tip with latex paint

Discussion in 'Materials' started by Tungsten, Dec 27, 2014.

  1. Tungsten
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    Tungsten Senior Member

    The wife has me building a cabinet for some off her dishes, we have some left over paint and primer from another project.Surface is plywood with maple strips to cover the end grain.Trying to avoid the roller marks as the color is semi gloss black.I assume thinning it with a little water will make it level out better?

    Or am I just waisting my time with latex?
     
  2. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    The latex will leave brush marks pretty well regardless of what you do with it, you can get a nice slick finish, though, by overcoating it with one coat of clear polyurethane. Will be much easier to keep clean, too. Obviously you would use semi-gloss clear finish, if that is the gloss level you want.
     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    You can spray it too. If you need to use water based, acrylic will stick less to stuff you put on the shelves.
     
  4. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Roll and tip as usual, then compound and buff out the brush strokes, once the paint is good and dry. Most acrylics (latex) paints are pretty full bodied, so thinning is an option, though typically you'll need more coats for coverage. If the brush strokes are deep, block the surfaces down with 400, 600, 800 first and if this doesn't get rid of them, move up through the 1,500, 2,000 grits, where you can start to buff and polish.
     
  5. Tungsten
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    Tungsten Senior Member

    Some good ideas thanks,it does say on the can to NOT thin.So buffing it is.
     
  6. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I'm sure they don't want you to thin, because it's designed as a single coat coverage system. If it was being sprayed, you'd have to thin it, just to get it through the gun. A reasonable cut (thinning) is normal and expected, in spite of what the can might suggest. They just don't want you to over cut and then complain about performance and coverage.
     
  7. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    i have not tried it, but they make latex "conditioner", a clearish liquid that you add to the paint to eliminate the brush strokes. It is supposed to make the latex self leveling, slows the curing down too.

    I have read an article about an experimental aircraft home builder that used gloss latex house paint, with conditioner mixed in per the instructions. He brush stroke it on the fabric skin of his home built aircraft. It looked so good he won grand champion award, no one realized the paint was hand brushed, looked too smooth and shinny for that. No sparyer or equipment required.
     
  8. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    There are softer acrylic paints formulated for outside use, and harder ones for inside use. I find the latter more difficult to get a smooth finish, especially in gloss. Flat and low sheen does not matter much, as the imperfections are largely hidden. A dark colour like black does show faults more than lighter shades.
     
  9. Tungsten
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    Tungsten Senior Member

    First coat is on,I thinned it a little with water.1/4 cup to one quart of paint.Used a 1/4" nap roller and no tipping.Don't see any roller marks.Had to build a tent and drying rack to keep the pieces warm.Hopefully I can sand them a little in a few days.

    I plan on using water base Varathane as a top coat this is much thinner and should work better at tipping.
     
  10. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    They are making some home owner, hand held HVLP sprayers now that are cheap, easy to clean and can apply a reasonable finish. The Wagner "Control Spray Max" is available for less then $100 (on sale), can spray thin alkyds and thick acrylics. Sure beats the hell out of rolling and tipping and it's a whole lot faster too. For small jobs these work well, especially the Graco products. Combined with some flow control additives (Penetrol for alkyds, Floetrol for acrylics), you can lay down some sweet finishes, without the mess of a pot gun system, which requires you fill a hose with paint, before it comes out of the gun or more traditional air systems, requiring a compressor.

    Simply put, a $100 - $150 sprayer is hard to walk away from with the quality they now offer. I'm not talking about the handheld buzz boxes of old, but the new HVLP units. GRACO Spraystation 2900 is a good one and has good adjustments.The ROCKLER HVLP 1000 is another. These are remote turbine units, so your arm doesn't fall off, after an hour of use. For less than the cost of a quality gallon of paint, you can have a little gun that applies a nice finish.
     
  11. Tungsten
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    Tungsten Senior Member

    So going to start sanding,is 220 ok then 320 400 .....

    If the paint starts to ball up on me I guess its not dry enough or is this normal with a latex?
    Also what advantages is there to wet sanding compared to dry?
     
  12. Tungsten
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    Tungsten Senior Member

    Answered my own question. Found some 400 wet dry and tried it wet worked really well. I just need more coats of paint.
     
  13. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    There's no need to polish acrylic (latex) paint with grits finer then 220 (wet) or at most 280. Once you go over this grit, you're just kidding yourself in hand applications. If you're spraying, you don't need more than 280, as acrylics a pretty fat bodied liquids and fill in these scratches easily. After the paint is good and cured (a few weeks) you can consider buffing it up to remove suicidal bugs, dirt, etc. Start with 400, if it's really dirty, but 800 if it look pretty clean. Move onto cutters and polish once appropriate.
     
  14. Tungsten
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    Tungsten Senior Member

    So after some sanding on a test panel the 400 works well since its the roughest wet paper I have.
    One thing I shouldn't have done was thin the paint,didn't know at the time that I would be able to sand all the imperfections off.But o well it just took more coats,still waiting for it to dry.
    I tried the water base Varathane, un thinned and holy brush strokes looks like crap so going to go with spray.Sanding the paint to make it look sprayed will be enough sanding for this project.

    Par your calling latex acrylic?Reason I ask is I can get acrylic Krylon clear coat for much cheaper then the water base varathane.So I assume this Krylon stuff is OK to use over the latex?
    Thanks for all the help.I'm shopping for a good spray gun before I do anymore paint projects.
     

  15. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Pick up the Graco 2900 or 3900 HVLP unit, as a cheap, home owners gun. They beat the Wagner models easily and you don't' have a hand buzzer to carry around either.

    Latex is a natural rubber and it was once used in paint, but they haven't used rubber in these paints for several decades, though the name has stuck. They're water based acrylics.

    Again, you can over sand the usual big box store acrylics, with too fine a grit, even if spraying. You need enough tooth, for subsequent coats to stick. I've never seen sprayed acrylic not cover and fill 280 grit scratches, but I have seen acrylics come up in big sheets if sanded too fine.

    It depends on the Krylon product you're using, though most are alkyds, so a primer would be a wise idea. Acrylics over acrylics and alkyds over alkyds are okay, but if you mix, primer is the usual recommendation. The side of the can will tell you what it is.
     
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