River Roller! Pontoon Boat that Rolls Across the Water!

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Matthew Lee Towne, May 10, 2017.

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Do you think the River Roller will work?

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  2. No

    34 vote(s)
    82.9%
  3. Maybe

    6 vote(s)
    14.6%
  1. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Thanx! You don't know how much time I spent researching this and never saw this application. None the less, the Rolligon is not exactly the same, and hence my idea is still patentable. Not to mention they didn't have energy dense batteries back then. If you read the rest of the posts, and you are familiar with electric drives, I think you will see this is much different.
     
  2. Waterwitch
    Joined: Oct 2012
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    Location: North East USA

    Waterwitch Junior Member

    Video shows what happens when you don't get a running start. Like driving on soft surfaces with no traction you dig a hole and sink.

     
  3. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
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    Location: Oriental, NC

    tom28571 Senior Member

    There is a word that applies to the claims of facts of the OP. It is "onus" and the onus is on the OP to show that hes is correct and all the doubters are wrong. Other than fanciful claims, he has done none of the work to prove that there is any merit to this idea. As Mr Watson posts, there have been many many vehicles that used such ideas but the ones that work all operate in other than water where the large footprint of buoyancy of the rollers provide enough buoyancy to support the machine.

    None of his claims are anything but just claims until he demonstrates a working model. His derision of engineering knowledge by others who have mostly tried to point out some weaknesses in his idea have been dismissed as negativity. He is apparently satisfied to celebrate his own ignorance. We already have too many of those and one is at the pinnacle of power in the USA.

    Tracked snowmobiles have demonstrated the ability to run on water if they first build up speed on land but must get back on land or sink. Wheeled machine/boats have never been able to do that in all the attempts made so far. The only ones that have worked at all have been those with sufficient buoyancy in huge balloon tires/pontoons/whatever to support the vehicle at rest and their forward motion has been very slow. In spite of all the noise, the onus to show his creativity is still on the OP and not on his doubters.
     
  4. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Watson,

    Nice addition.
     
  5. Clarkey
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: UK

    Clarkey Senior Member

    Hi. Have you already filed your patent application?
     
  6. Dave T
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Location: Anamosa Iowa and North Buena Vista on the Mississi

    Dave T Senior Member

    I wouldn't worry about aesthetics yet. Just build a model it doesn't matter if it's ugly. I wouldn't recommend spending any time or money on a patent nobody is going to steal your idea. All I can see this thing doing if you apply a lot of power with diameter of your paddle wheels at high RPM is digging a hole in the water and sinking in it. I just can't see anything that's going to lift the hull which is the drums that the paddles are attached out of the water especially if the thing weighs 5000#. You say you know that this thing will work. I say it's time to stop talking and prove it.
     
  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    You should only apply for a patent if your are capable of vigorously defending it for a several years. If not, the standard business models will eat you out of a lot of cash and in the end, you'll lose what you think are your rights.
     
  8. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
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    Location: Oriental, NC

    tom28571 Senior Member

    I wonder just what is here that can be patented. The heart of any patent is in the claims and we have all seen everything that has been shown before. If anything has been shown of patent value, then he is very much at risk by having already disclosed it. Disclosure to the public may easily invalidate an application. From experience, I know that getting a valuable patent is no cake walk or cheap either. The patent office files are full of patents that were made because the inventor just liked to have their name out there as having invented something which has no real value.
     
  9. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    I was also thinking that this thread is like arguing with alternative facts folk. A multitude of people with knowledge all tied up trying to convince one person who won't accept reality. Fortunately, in this case here, he'll be the one to suffer the consequences, not the world.

    This statement leads me to wonder how much knowledge of patenting he has. I also wonder if he even has "patent pending" status.

    How to Get Patent Pending Status http://www.invents.com/how-to-get-patent-pending-status/

    The part about " in which you describe how to make and use the invention, " seems like it would be a problem. I haven't seen anything other than vague ideas about how this boat would be made or used and you can't patent or get patent pending status for vague ideas.

    As with a lot of internet information, the above site quoted is probably years old. In 2013 the patent laws were changed in a lot of ways that basically shoves the small time inventor out of the way to let large corporations operate without being bothered and pestered.

    Patent pending - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_pending

    Leahy-Smith America Invents Act - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leahy-Smith_America_Invents_Act
     
  10. Rurudyne
    Joined: Mar 2014
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    Location: North Texas

    Rurudyne Senior Member

    If it can be made especially ugly some tech or design magazine will write you up for your bold, ground breaking styling and forward thinking.
     
  11. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 142
    Likes: 1, Points: 18
    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    This was very discouraging when i first looked at it. But there are some interesting things to note. First its two wheel drive. Second there aren't any significant paddles. Third when he went in reverse, it didn't sink at all. Fourth i think it is back heavy.

    My conclusions based on this are: First, full power to all trantoons from a stop will result in either it sinking (possible submersible capabilities?) or it will not have time to sink as the electric power will immediately put it on plane. Honestly I'm leaning towards its submersible capabilities.

    That being said, and as I'm sure you are all expecting, i don't think this is a deal killer. I think that controlling the rpms of the interior trantoons to control buoyancy will handle coming out of the hole without sinking.

    But it's also possible that the immediate power and traction of this system will make the submersible qualities a moot point.

     
  12. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 142
    Likes: 1, Points: 18
    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Wow. First of all its Ok to speak directly to me. Second, pseudo intellectual comes to mind. Third, i have listened and learned. Don't confuse disagreement with ignorance. Fourth, this forum IS terribly negative. There have been no criticisms of which can't be designed around yet few are interested in actually suggesting solutions to their criticisms. That's negative.

    You would think that for all of the brainpower here, that we could attempt to compare apples with apples. This concept is radically different than previous attempts. Its an orange.

    Your right the onus is on me. I'm working on it. The onus of this forum should be to find solutions to design problems, not find the failures and say there's no hope.

     
  13. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Lol. So Is that saying it's not ugly?
     
  14. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 142
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    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Ok. Once again it's ok to speak directly to me. I have no intention of divulging my patent application information, but it has been reviewed by a patent attorney and deemed sufficient.

    I won't suffer. Worst case scenario is you are all right and I've been schooled. Best case scenario the whole world will benefit. Either way im enjoying the journey.

    I love boats and being on the water. I just wish they weren't such a pain in the butt!

     

  15. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 142
    Likes: 1, Points: 18
    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Disclosure is the beginning of a patent. You can disclose to the world, and still patent that idea within a year.

    I can actually patent an idea that is based on someone elses patent. Also a patent is based on a specific invention, the question is how specific do you have to be.

    The less specific the better. Clearly this will have to have a higher degree of specificity.


     
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