River Roller! Pontoon Boat that Rolls Across the Water!

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Matthew Lee Towne, May 10, 2017.

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Do you think the River Roller will work?

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  2. No

    34 vote(s)
    82.9%
  3. Maybe

    6 vote(s)
    14.6%
  1. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    I completely missed your fifth point. I guess i need to give up on the less wake idea. Especially at low speeds. I don't understand how the stem wave will be an issue with the mounding. That's behind the boat. What do we care?

     
  2. Dave T
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Dave T Senior Member

    The biggest problem with this idea is the complexity of all the systems needed to make it work. Unless you are able to do the engineering on all the different systems required and have the knowledge, experience, equipment and a place to build a full size proto-type yourself then you will need many thousands of dollars that you can afford to lose to pay for engineering and construction of a working full size proto-type and then you will have to prove that it works and there is a market for it before you will be able to get investors. The biggest problem with this concept is the cost of development, the complexity of the drive system, maintenance issues and most likely a boat that would cost a whole lot more and not be near as efficient as much cheaper drive system.
     
  3. Tiny Turnip
    Joined: Mar 2008
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    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    Remembered this. Check out the Sherp ATV. Lots of youtube material on it:

     
  4. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Yep. A full size prototype will require much more resources than I have. Yes when produced, it will be expensive. No, i don't think cheaper systems are more efficient.

    The pontoon boat market is a billion dollar a year market. This design should easily capture a good portion of that market. People are already paying $60k for pontoon boats. What's another 20 for all the advantages.

    Think about it just from an solar charged standpoint. Every Saturday morning your boat is fueled and ready to go. Sounds great to me!

     
  5. portacruise
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    portacruise Senior Member

    You have a good idea in trying to eliminate boat skin friction while using it as an asset ie. the higher the water friction, the more efficient the propulsion becomes. But I think there are more efficient (see TUHHsnelda picture at humanpoweredboats.com under university boats) and less complex ways to do this, and the basis is a very old concept- search "River tank boats" Popular Science Jan 1930 (used on the Cumberland River, Tenn). Also if you can find the patent on the "hydrocopter" a 4 blade powered boat you will see a concept that is probably more efficient than hydrofoils (the blades simultaneously slap the water surface for propulsion while suspending the boat above water).

    PC
     
  6. FMS
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    FMS Senior Member

  7. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

  8. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Finally a little positivity! I'm not saying that this is the MOST efficient design. Im saying that this design is more efficient than a prop and hull.

    The hydrocopter is something i had just thought of, but as most of my ideas, you have shown has already been done. Thanx. You saved me some research. I couldnt find your river tank boats, but i have seen many tracked applications. This is not not tracked and hence is patentable.

    Everyone keeps saying this is a complex system. An internal combustion engine is complex. A lower unit is complex and problematic. An electric motor with a belt drive is simple. Yes the engineering will be complex. The end result will be easy and simple. No different than any other boat.

    As far as i can tell this has not been done. I believe this will be a superior pontoon boat and possibly a superior boat period.



     
  9. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    The sherp is cool. It is an atv that can also travers water. The river roller is a boat that can also traverse water.

     
  10. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Oops. I meant to say the River Roller is a boat that can also traverse land.

     
  11. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 142
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    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Hello Again All,
    I have been listening to your responses and have a challenge for all of you. Is it possible, or probable that the River Roller concept will be more efficient than a prop and hull? Take into account the inefficiency of a hull being pushed through the water. Take into account solar power and the accumulation of power over time. Take into account the fact that the entire hull will work for the application and regeneration of kinetic energy. So far every criticism can be engineered or lawyered away. I look forward to your worst.
     
  12. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    With some flow and hydrodynamics in your background you'll quickly see why this statement isn't remotely close to accurate. There's a good reason paddle drive types were abandoned many decades ago, shortly after the appearance of props in fact.


    Most gas and diesel engines are complex, but also extremely durable, reliable and well sorted out for marine applications, not to mention offer better power to weight options and cost effectiveness. A lower unit isn't problematic in the least, just as the IC engine has been refined for it's application choices, the lower unit is also well sorted.

    I doubt you'll venture very far into the pontoon market, which is a small segment of the pleasure boat industry, limiting your market share. Most pontoon boats are built to a very low price point and though some are pretty costly, the vast majority are quite inexpensive and cheaply built. This is their niche, a lot of deck space for little money. Lastly, the marine industry is pretty conservative as a whole, so odd balls don't sell well. High tech materials can be sold, as can some higher end engineering choices, but most find the customer base likes the pointy end on the front, with motors hanging on it's butt the most viable marketing approuch and the largest portion of market share. For example, you'd think with the economic downturn a few years back, a significant attempt to make more efficient boats would have swept through, but nope, the design decisions for this aren't marketable.
     
  13. fredrosse
    Joined: Jan 2005
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    fredrosse USACE Steam

    "Im saying that this design is more efficient than a prop and hull."

     
  14. Waterwitch
    Joined: Oct 2012
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    Waterwitch Senior Member

    The proof of concept for a tracked vane propulsion system already exists, in the sense that people skim snowmobiles across open water. Although snowmobiles make awful boats... Any lift you might gain from the vane if your roller entering the water at the beginning of your stroke is negated by the downward force of the vane exiting the water. This makes a tracked system make more sense since the vanes actually spend most of their imersed time traveling in a useful direction.
     

  15. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    This is a complete failure.
    All the alternate propulsion schemes brought up here were failures.
    Not a one survived the "Popular mechanics" stage.

    Build a model or get an engineering degree.
     
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