River Roller! Pontoon Boat that Rolls Across the Water!

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Matthew Lee Towne, May 10, 2017.

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Do you think the River Roller will work?

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  2. No

    34 vote(s)
    82.9%
  3. Maybe

    6 vote(s)
    14.6%
  1. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 142
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    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Well I have to comment further on this one. Your contributions are the most impressive at first, but again and again, everyone here wants to compare apples with oranges. Simply because noone knows how the orange should be designed. That doesn't mean the orange is a bad idea. So your thought experiment appears superior if we strap an outboard to both watercraft. The whole equation changes if the trantoons are propelling the craft forward. All of you simply need to admit you don't know how to fit the River Roller into your equations. The fact that the entire hull will be moving water has to alter your equations. This is a simple logistic fact. How much it will change your equations is up to debate. I think you all know where I stand on that debate.

     
  2. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 142
    Likes: 1, Points: 18
    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Hello All, I have a challenge for all of you. This challenge is based on a positivity. If you all were tasked with making the River Roller work as a useful water craft what would your contributions be? Assume it will be built and your reputation is on the line. Anyone up for helping instead of hindering?
     
  3. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 142
    Likes: 1, Points: 18
    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    What is your definition of efficiency? My research indicates 6mpg for the average pontoon boat. That's pathetic.

     
  4. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    I positively encourage you to learn some physics.
    Clicking your heels is no way to actually learn to fly.

    And quit talking.
     
  5. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Look folks, haven't you seen a teenager or young adult toll a discussion forum before? Look at the number and quality of the post here by this young man. He's made no reasonable defense, though lots of grandiose gestures in his ignorance of physics. He follows his posts with more of his posts, to self justify and postulate, now hoping someone else can "positively" promote what has been nearly unanimously, not taken very seriously. I'm betting he's about 16 years old and his mommy has recently bought him a 3D printer, but he hasn't had the time to learn enough CAD skills, on his smartphone to get much more than a box built, so now wants a "positive" pro to whip up something to prove him right. Lastly his idea of "research" is a Google search.
     
  6. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Thanks for the education.
    Surely you have no problem with not responding with his "positive" response?
    I notice you keep answering.
     
  7. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member


    I'm not trying to be positive or negative, just posting somewhat similar craft to show how they perform, you should have found them easily if you'd done any research. Discussing and finding solutions to the obvious hurtles is where you should have started, after your numerous posts it appears you came up with an idea and are now trying to tweak physics (in your mind) to fit your misconceptions.

    I'm leaning towards Par's thoughts on this thread after looking back at all your resonses, we're just being trolled for someone's amusement.
     
  8. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

  9. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    What research and what pontoon boat did you look at? That number makes no sense, what was this number supposed mean.
     
  10. alan craig
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: s.e. england

    alan craig Senior Member

    MLT, you gave a challenge and asked for contributions:
    Put a curved deflector just above the waterline behind each trantoon to deflect water downwards and backwards to increase efficiency.
    Include discs on the edge of each trantoon to avoid wasted energy pushing water sideways, or add a flat plate along each side extending down to the draught of the paddles to do the same job.
    Make the most of your printer by including drive pulley or gear on the end of each trantoon.

    I have a challenge for you - You are an *********** ****** who will not be able to make a working prototype, demonstrated by link to a YT video, within one year from now. It must be faster than a displacement boat of the same all up weight, same overall length and same power input. If you can I will publicly apologise right here.

    EDIT: 12 hours later I kind of regret the bad words so apologies to MLT for that and thanks to the moderator for censoring.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  11. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

  12. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,126
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Having driven a swamp buggy, I can tell you there's nothing to compare. These aren't boats and they don't float (not even close). They are running in about 24" of water and their rear tires are on the bottom for the start. The rear tires do bounce around over ruts and stuff, but mostly they just try to get whatever grip is available, most of it on the bottom. The front tires are just along for the ride and do help steer, but mostly the front end is on ski's and this is what keeps this end of the boat up.
     
  13. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    My links are more to show the inefficiencies of the paddle design than anything else, mostly lots of noise and splashing, with little in the way of speed and efficiency to go with it.
     
  14. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    You've described what you think will work, a number of opinions have been expressed, mostly to the effect that it won't work. Do you want everybody to put your ideas into practice for you, is that what you're asking?

    Nobody is hindering you. Evaluations and assessments that your idea won't work are not obstacles purposely placed in your way to ruin your project. They are opinions based on reality. You seem to think positive thinking by itself solves problems, somewhat like Sparkly Unicorns.

    The next step is for you to do. You have to get some actual evidence that your idea might work. It's time for experimental prototypes.

    I myself think that regular, normal paddlewheels are pretty efficient as far as transferring power to the water, but the numerous disadvantages compared to a propeller are why they are not used in any appreciable numbers.

    Your main claim is that all the toons rotating in one direction will probably be faster than anything ever yet conceived by mankind. All the other claims are secondary, they all rely on the first claim being true. Maneuverability, efficiency, applicability...all secondary. They all depend on the main claim. If that doesn't work, everything else is 'worth less'.

    Your first prototype won't need split toons for steering, because you won't need to steer it. Steering is secondary.

    Prototypes can be, but don't have to be expensive or complicated or even made to last very long.

    I envision a platform with sides to which are attached a row of 2 liter soda bottles with paddles taped or glued to them. Axles of screws or nails penetrate the cap and the bottom of each bottle. A rubber band goes around the neck of bottle 1 to around the neck of bottle 2. Another rubber band goes from around the neck of bottle 2 to around the neck of bottle 3. Continue until all bottles are connected like that. The end result is when one bottle turns, they all turn.

    A battery powered drill is mounted on top with a drive pulley in it (or just use the chuck itself), with another rubber band as the drive belt going to one of the bottles.
    The variable speed drill lets you experiment with, well, variable speeds.

    Experiment using a swimming pool for controlled water conditions. Since steering is not required for this first prototype, you can put a couple screw eyes in the platform so the thing can run straight along a tightly stretched wire or nylon masonry string. Wrapping the drill in a plastic bag for waterproofing might be a good idea. You could also have a post in the center of the pool so the thing could go in a circle. That might be better as it could run until the batteries died, giving more information by a longer observation period.

    Now if you spent thousands of $ on a patent and untold thousands of $ on prototyping, research and such and got to a production model that worked well enough to be economically viable, I think I might consider making one with something like a flattened innertube that had paddles attached. It would run somewhat like a snowmobile track but it would be buoyant, so, like your invention, the hull would be eliminated and pure power would be applied to the water surface. Unlike your multi-toon version, mine would overcome the water disturbances between each toon and more importantly would apply all power in a straight line parallel to the water, eliminating the wasted downforce and upforce of your paddles as they enter and exit the water. With two tube tracks, I would have the caterpillar type steering and probably all the same advantages you claim in the OP, and no doubt be even faster and even more efficient. Plus, I'd undercut your price until you went out of business.

    Now, if you want to call this negativity and a hindrance, go right ahead. It's not, though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017

  15. RonL
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 94
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    Location: Central Texas

    RonL Junior Member

    I would kinda like to see that Patent Pending # ????????
     
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