Ultra Cheap River Boat design

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by ultracheapboat, Apr 30, 2004.

  1. ultracheapboat
    Joined: Apr 2004
    Posts: 11
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Europe

    ultracheapboat Junior Member

    Hi, I'm fairly new to boat design. I'm working on a study about river and inland water transport in developing countries.
    For millions of people, inland water transport is the most important mode of mobility. In many of those countries (Brazil, Bangladesh, Vietnam, China, India, Congo, etc...), road networks and road infrastructure are in a mediocre or bad state, and so river transport remains a vital element in people's mobility. Moreover, inland water transport is a life vein for small local economies, from a "logistics" point of view.
    However, many people find it difficult to buy new boats, or to maintain old ones. Their mobility is being reduced by a lack of cheap boats.

    My idea is to create an Ultra Cheap River Boat, for the poor, so to speak. Such a boat would be made of injection moulded plastic (for the hull) and a cheap engine. The boat should be ultra-basic, safe, durable and of course dirtcheap.

    I'm just presenting this as a general idea, it's only a very broad concept, but I'd love to hear your comments on this.

    Does anyone know about injection moulded plastic boats? I've heard that the US Navy used such boats in the Vietnam War.


    Thx and I'm looking forward to your ideas and advice.
     
  2. duluthboats
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 1,604
    Likes: 57, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 779
    Location: Minneapolis,MN, USA

    duluthboats Senior Dreamer

    I would look at this site carefully. http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W7260E/W7260E00.htm
    The boats on this site are suited for the purpose you intend. They are easily built from wood, which universally available, and easily repairable with hand tools.
    Gary
     
  3. ultracheapboat
    Joined: Apr 2004
    Posts: 11
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Europe

    ultracheapboat Junior Member

    That's really a fantastic link. Just what I was looking for. (I forgot the FAO Fisheries' dept!).

    Thx a lot. :)
     
  4. SeaDrive
    Joined: Feb 2004
    Posts: 223
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 15
    Location: Connecticut

    SeaDrive Senior Member

    Many of the traditional craft of river-faring societies are derived from dugouts and are long and narrow. There have been some designs to replace them with plank-built boats that may be of interest. John Welsford did one in plywood for East Timor, and there was one, by Joel White I think, that was sponsored by Woodenboat.
     
  5. ultracheapboat
    Joined: Apr 2004
    Posts: 11
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Europe

    ultracheapboat Junior Member

    Thx so far.

    Maybe I should be more specific. The idea is to make a mass produced boat (well let's not exaggerate).

    So far I've read that wooden boats are the best cost option for small riverboats (of say anywhere between 5 and 8 metres). However, this is intended as a commercial project, and I'm thinking more about an injection moulded plastic process. If they're produced in higher quantities, the cost structure may well be more interesting than that of wooden boats.

    I'm no materials expert, but I'd love to hear from your expertise.

    I've also seen a very interesting concept called "four hulls" (http://www.fourhulls.com), and something similar could easily be mass produced. (The small hulls can be plastic moulded).

    Please more comments.
     
  6. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 16,802
    Likes: 1,721, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Poor countries are rich in abundant labor. The last thing those people need is for a foreigner to take their boatbuilding jobs away with a mass produced product.
     
  7. ultracheapboat
    Joined: Apr 2004
    Posts: 11
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Europe

    ultracheapboat Junior Member

    Gonzo, you sure do have a point. But please don't think that "commercial" means "white man coming to ruin your lives again".

    The idea is to fill a clear need: in many of those countries access to quality wood is either limited (Bangladesh, India, Vietnam) or very expensive. Moreover, it's a project specifically intended to transfer a basic technology. The production remains in the community (if that's feasible) and will be adapted to the needs of local people. This is not a push project. I'm just exploring an idea.

    What would be wrong with providing people a cheaper boat, if that helps them forward in their mobility and economic progress? We're talking about a micro-investment, but which means a lot to very poor people.

    When mobile phones were introduced to rural bangladeshi women, it helped them forward, but there were always those who said that it's a white man's technology bombarded onto them. Well, it helped them, very obviously so.

    A cheap boat could get them out of the cycle of dependency on boat operators who drive costs up to transport their goods. I would even suggest that traditional boat makers (if they still exist) could easily convert to become owners of cheap fleets with which they can tap into the "micro-logistics" of riverine transport.

    Again, this is all to be studied, not to be pushed. Thx for the critique.

    One more thing: it would be a commercial project, just like the Maruti car in India, precisely to counter the idea that people in developing countries always have to live from "gifts". They prefer to be treated as ordinary people with purchasing power. Not as passive receptors of donations.
     
  8. ultracheapboat
    Joined: Apr 2004
    Posts: 11
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Europe

    ultracheapboat Junior Member

    Gonzo, one more detail.

    People always laugh when I tell them the story of plastic water cannisters being introduced into rural areas. (I'm a cultural anthropologists, I've studied this a bit).

    In Africa pottery making has traditionally been a woman's job and women spent hours and days on making heavy and fragile pots to collect water. The plastic bottle created a true micro-revolution. It sounds unimportant, but the introduction of plastic water carriers has literally "liberated" millions of women from the time-consuming act of making clay pots. There's even a book about this micro-logistical miracle.

    Just to show you that a simple object (which the people in question do not make themselves) can transform lives.

    The ultra cheap boat idea has a similar but more modest purpose. But again, I will never push this idea, if there's no interest from the communities themselves.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Look for Walker Bay Boats, they are injection molded. The issue will become how big a boat can you build, I believe thay use one of the largest in the world and the boat is less than 10 feet long, not good for cargo.
    I agree with the others, using wood (renewable resource) is much better better than plastic
     
  10. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
    Posts: 2,474
    Likes: 117, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1728
    Location: Oriental, NC

    tom28571 Senior Member

    I think you should look at molding processes other than injection which demands very expensive tooling for such a large thing as your boat. Most of the cheap kayaks and other such poly boats are made in a process known as rotomolding. Vacu-forming may also be viable but my bet is on rotomolding since I'm sure others have been through the same route as you and wound up there.

    While not pretty and heavier than most other alternatives, these things are nearly indestructable. Some of the areas you mentioned are very short on available of wood in any size and trees large enough to build a boat out of are non-existant. Plastic adequate for this use can come from recycled material too poor in quality for many other uses so shipping might be the greatest cost.

    Just 30 second ruminations but may be of some use to you. Good luck.
     
  11. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
    Posts: 2,474
    Likes: 117, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1728
    Location: Oriental, NC

    tom28571 Senior Member

    Oh yeah, projects to build such boats in resource poor countries have been underway for many years. Maybe in the constant camber coldmolding process. The idea was to utilize poor quality wood with laminating adhesives on a small section common mold that could be used to form different sizes of boats for different uses.

    I don't know how successful they have been. I did hear one time about troubles with cost and availability of materials and maybe local acceptance. It's a tough job. Some very good and well meaning projects have come apart because of resistance to change.
     
  12. ultracheapboat
    Joined: Apr 2004
    Posts: 11
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Europe

    ultracheapboat Junior Member

    Thx a lot Tom, that's some great advice.
    I was already thinking of recycled plastics. I've seen extremely durable and strong molded structures coming out of our local community recycling plant here in Belgium (like roadblocks, blocks to anker parasols, big garden pots, etc...). They don't look very aesthetic, but they're strong.
    I've never heard of rotomolding, I'll check it out, thanks a lot.

    Excellent advice.
     
  13. ultracheapboat
    Joined: Apr 2004
    Posts: 11
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Europe

    ultracheapboat Junior Member

    Yes, you're sure right there, Tom. As I said, this is the very beginning of a possible small project. I understand that the feasibility of such a project must be based on a thorough bottom-up research (see what local people really need and are willing to accept).

    Have you had any experience with development work yourself?
     
  14. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
    Posts: 2,474
    Likes: 117, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1728
    Location: Oriental, NC

    tom28571 Senior Member

    No direct experience with such projects. Just an interested bystander.
     

  15. grob
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 216
    Likes: 5, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 53
    Location: Cotswolds Waterpark, UK

    grob www.windknife.com

    I am pleased you like the fourhull concept, one of the advantages is that it uses many of the same components and so tooling prices are relatively low. A similar concept is used by http://www.plasticpontoon.com.

    To give you some real numbers to work with, good quality rotational moulding tooling from a reputable European toolmaker will cost around £15,000. That is probably the top end price for a simple 2-2.5m long hull. It then may be possible to get the hulls produced for as little as £1/kg. The £1/kg number comes from the auto industry and so very high volumes x10,000 would be needed to reach this low price.

    There are two further ways to drive the price down, one way to start out when you don't know how many you are likely to sell would be to go for lower priced tooling. I am told that some high temperature composites are being produced that can be used for roto tooling, this could bring the price of the tooling down to £2000. Another way is to make the hulls symmetrical so that each boat is made from a quarter hull. Sixteen moulds per four hulled boat. This reduces the tooling cost, but raises the volume and increases the labour which may not be such a problem in developing countries.

    One more thing I would consider is to produce a low wake boat to avoid environmental damage. The four hull "diamond" configuration is good for that, see http://www.cyberiad.net/waketet.htm


    The viability of this project may come down to simple economics.

    Gareth
    Warob Marine
    www.fourhulls.com
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.