reverse staysails, as it pertains to ketches, particularly the reverse or upsidedown

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by n5pgo, May 15, 2014.

  1. n5pgo
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    n5pgo Junior Member

    To the Post Moderator,

    I am attempting to research the use of staysail design as it pertains to ketches, particularly the "reverse" or upside down mainsail with a mizzen staysail. An example would be the classic racing yacht "Creole", or the large Caribbean sailing cruise ships (whose name escapes me for the moment). Which THREAD or FORUM would be most appropriate to post this request upon?
     
  2. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member

    The rig you are referring to is "Wishbone ketch".
    welcome.
     
  3. Boat Design Net Moderator
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    Boat Design Net Moderator Moderator

    Welcome to the forums n5pgo.

    Will move this thread to the main Sailboat forum for further discussion. There is often some overlap between forum subject and a given discussion so what's asked is to choose the one which is most on point. The best practice when having a new question is to do a quick search to see if there is already a topic (called a thread) discussing exactly what you wish to discuss; if not, then pick the one forum that's most relevant and go ahead and start a new thread there. Again, welcome to the forums.
     
  4. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    fisherman

    I think they're known as a "fisherman staysl" & seen on the schooner too.

    Jeff.
     
  5. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member

    Attached Files:

  6. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Ketches will sometimes use a light weather sail called a Mule.

    This is tacked to windward on the rail about abeam the fore mast step.

    It is hoisted to the mizzen top and sheeted to the mizzen boom end outboard..

    Usually almost as much SA as the main , but only a light weather reaching sail.

    Is this what you mean?

    The other shape may be known as a Triatic .

    It is tacked to the base of the mizzen , hoisted to the fore mast head and sheeted to the mizzen top.

    Less area than a mule , but can be used to windward.

    The danger is many mizzen are not designed for either loading, and may fail unless re rigged.
     
  7. n5pgo
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    n5pgo Junior Member

    stays'l follow-up

    Thank all of you for your replies. I am already acquainted with mules and fishermen (used on sailing ships since the 1700's at least). The wishbone rig is the closest I've seen, but the one I am interested in does not have any gaff or spar of any kind on either the mizzen stays'l or whatever that thing is called hanging upside down on the main. The only spar would be a boom on the mizzen stays'l.

    I have seen plenty of examples on the net, but no real name for it. The reason for all this is to see how the rig compares to the huge wing sail on the french made ocean trimarans (or the olympic 72's), and how to properly stay the reverse main so high up on the mizzen.

    Again, thanks for the replies and keep them coming! Maybe something will turn up. Especially about the Creole!
     
  8. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member

    If I understand correctly, you describe the wishbone ketch but with the mainsail set flying. Simply sheeted to the mizzen top. No wishbone boom.
    Is that correct?

    If so, sounds like light air only.
    A big belly sail works in light air.
    Greater wind strength needs flattening of sail and a boom or strut, or sprit to stretch it tight.
    I think.
     
  9. n5pgo
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    n5pgo Junior Member

    For Yobarnacle

    That is correct.
     
  10. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member

    Then watch for the luff wrinkles and trim accordingly is my advice.
     
  11. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member

    Sailboards use a wishbone boom to hang on to and control the sail.
    If you have a wishbone ketch, I'd look for a cheap used sailboard boom and use it with the trysail in heavier air.

    Or make one.
     

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  12. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

  13. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member

    Interesting bio. thanks!
     
  14. n5pgo
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    n5pgo Junior Member

    Reverse Main Trysail?

    Here is a photo of the SV Creole. THESE are the sails I am referring to.
     

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  15. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member

    Trysail Barkentine. Fore-n-aft rig more than two masts is a barkentine. The upsidedown mainsails ARE "Trysails".
     
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