Reverse Engineering (conversions And Modifications)

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by viking north, Dec 25, 2010.

  1. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Well said. Very well said.
     
  2. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Agree100% to a limit but read Benjys article in detail, he mentions the cost factor several times and does have a rather long list of complaints and mods. he has done and recommends. Being handy with his hands saved him money but in reality this is still labour costs.No doubt it is a an excellent design all i am saying it's not a purchase for the faint of financial heart. Is it worth $150,000 before tax and delivery(if required) and yes it might be less cost to berth but the are other costs associated with a pricy boat and it poses a question do the insurance companys balk at insuring a 24ft. boat replacement in the $150,000 range.Insurance costs are directly related to dollar amounts. To be honest he paid a very reasonable amount for his boat but only because of the value of the pound sterling at the time, if i read him correctly. I recall the pound was valued somewhere around $2.50 against the dollar, so in American funds again if i understand him correctly he paid much less than one would on this side of the pond, He states if not for that he could never have bought the boat.(My guesstimate he paid in the $75,000 range plus appropiate taxes for the boat itself), Ad Hoc, Being a designer it's a battle you must fight all the time, trying to keep costs within whatever the market can bear. All i am stating this is an excellent vessel but it's not one that is open financially to most small boat people out there and as such there are other options that will give very acceptiable results for less money. I.E. More bang for the average income buck. Having built boats for over 40yrs with my own hands, i do have a better than average understanding of product value for the dollar, not all my bits and pieces are overpriced big brand name for the sake of name display. Thus the idea of this thread in the first place, if you're handy with you hands and can't even afford a $10,000 immediate cash layout then there are still options to reach you dream but again like the Dana, it's not for everyone. Geo.

    P.S.Benjy, I am not disagreeing with you, i agree with you on the quality of the boat and also with your repetitive mention of it being costly.I am so impressesd with some of the features i have already planned to incorporate some of them in my new build.The $50,000 used price was listed on page 2 of the article along the retail of 150,000, On top of the page in the same paragraph. I didn't say you quoted this, i said I got the prices from the review article. The 10yrs, was an example time only, read my reply carefully, "SAY" 10 yrs. And Bengy, be truthful, the big factor you decided to buy was because in your money it was a steal, you got excellent value for your buck and i commend you on it, God Bless Capitolism.

    A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner
     
  3. Scunthorp
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    Scunthorp Hull Tech

    Hmmm built by Mexicans (I wonder what they got per hour of sweaty ill fed labor that day?) I think double backstays would make it stronger. What if you doubled up the chain plate thickness? If you Google the Dana for sale sights you will find that they are still costly to purchase and I guess a barrel of polyester resin is about around 1000$ The engine looks like about 10000$ then there is the Teak (badly built) interior “nope I still don’t get 150000$” perhaps they used gold instead of lead for the ballast. (If I could afford it I would) you could probably feed a Mexican village for a year at that price but then they weren’t wearing any protective equipment or clothing. 150000$ and 10 years of Padros life



    Try this one if you are still interested in the boat
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6nkFYpFuMU

    I have a Halman 20 and I love her so look at this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4Gmlh8sWjEM
     
  4. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    were you referring to the Dana 24 interior ? - looks pretty schmick to me.
     
  5. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Watson, not the new ones,I think he was referring to one of the last ones built by the origional company before it canged hands, as described in an article written by the buyer of that boat. All in all he sorted it all out with alot of his own sweat equity with exception of the bent and poorley welded mast but he seems to have put it all behind him and is crusing and enjoying his boat. No reflection on the boat just another customed jammed up in some defects and from what i can gather from the article was fighting to get them rectified. Beautiful boat just the same but certainly out of my price league. Geo.
     
  6. Scunthorp
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    Scunthorp Hull Tech

    It helps to read and understand the context of the message. I like the boat but I was referring to a previous post. “God that would be like invading Iraq only to find that there were no weapons of mass destruction anywhere”. I think to avoid further confusion we should only criticize things we are really sure of, partially fond of, or outright scared of. Sincerely John
     

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  7. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    To get back to the thread for those of us taking the path of working on a dream instead of sitting on our arses dreaming of how we are ever going to come up with the immediate cash layout to buy the so called ideal boat, which by the way most of us working stiffs will never attain(the collapse of the middle class), here 's where i am in my conversion. I have taken off my hull lines and while not necessary to do so before having them plugged into my designer's computer, I have transcribed them onto graft paper one stationion at a time 1/8 in. scale all 21 stations for a 27.5ft. surfboat double ended hull. In addition have done a scaled two dimension side view of the hull including my planned keel and superstructure(keel still in the development stage ). I have somewhat went thru this process before(in my country,in my time(NFLD) most small to med. boats were built from a brown paper shetch made on the kitchen table while having a spot of tea)but generally only one part of the hull at a time to get a general layout to fit say the v berth, settes, head and so on. However now having now gone thru the detail steps as an old time designer would do(no computer) I can't express how this manual time consuming process engages your brain with your boat. You get to know her overall shape much better. When i took off her lines I wrote the actual numbers on the exact location on the hull in soft graphite pencil. As a result now when i view or work on the hull just seeing the numbers written there triggers the entire scaled view to appear. I imagine this is how old time designers got to know hull shapes so well and sadly why maybe the new kids on the block might not. I gotten to know hull shapes from years of building and working on boats but in this case i am taking the designer approach and i have to admit it turned on some lightbulbs in this old dogs head and i like it. For all those working on a conversion or in the process of completing an unfinished hull where no design info exist go thru this process first before having the numbers plugged into a computer, you will be rewarded thruout the entire build. Geo.

    A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner.
     
  8. Scunthorp
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    Scunthorp Hull Tech

    George Can you scan them so we can have a look see??? I have to do the same interior for bulkheads and stations, and exterior for keel placement. John
     
  9. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Will do, My designer dropping by for meeting tomorrow, will try to get it done tonight. Soon be time for us to meet, I'm only about 15k away from you, will be in the shop this weekend, big fire on cold beer and maybe a swig. Geo.
     
  10. Scunthorp
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    Scunthorp Hull Tech

    I have you at 44 32' 03.73"N 63 47' 47.26"W (This nav stuff is so cool) See you Satarday mate John...
     
  11. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Those coordinates put me off my dock at your mooring, whatsa matter for u, u trying to drown me. Ok sounds good for sat.
     
  12. Scunthorp
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    Scunthorp Hull Tech

    SS Holding Tank

    I finally got the photos done today for those who were interested. John
     

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  13. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    I havent been following the thread but......Opps...no inspection hatch ?
    How will you paint the inside ?
    How will you clean the inside ?

    Also, how will the tank be fastened to the hull ? Alum is prone to corrosion at the hull to tank contact point. Keep these contact points high and dry.

    How will the poop get into the tank ?

    Many times...to gain extra plumbing " fall" for gravity poo feed, its best to put the in pipes thru the side of the tank to gain just a bit more gravity...

    Remember that poop , corn kernals , tampax, Rolex watchs............ settle to the bottom ....any fitting on the bottom will sludge up . Best to pump, suck, the sauce up with via a removable , threaded in, PVC pipe , driven thru the tank top, that extends to the bottom of the tank, feeding a hungry diaphragm type pump. .

    A tank sensor for "full" alarm works the same way. PCV tube driven thru the tank top poking its nose into the poo , with a pressure sensative switch outside to trip the alarm. Effective and easy to remove and clean.
     

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  14. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    On a downer note.... My FIRST poop tank was 316 SS passivated, inert gas flooded while welding etc from a very reputable tank shop. 6 years later, "Honey, what's that really bad smell?" and I found all 26 gallons of black water in the bilge courtesy of a failed weld. Not a fun clean-up when you need a puke bucket along with the gloves and all. I think the combo of pee and saltwater is really hard on metal.
    The present poop tank is 3/8" thick epoxy and fiberglass with no fittings other than what comes in the top, no smell, no 'accidents' and it's been another 8 years since the job.
     

  15. Landlubber
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    ...well, you were told not to do it, buy hey, what would we know.....
     
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