Reverse bows on cruising cats pros and cons

Reverse bows-proven scientifcally?

That brings up an interesting point about "science" and reverse bows. When every recent ocean racing and round the world racing trimaran uses reverse bows, is that "fashion" or is it science applied to high speed trimaran seaworthiness? The seaworthiness of this type of bow is key-not just speed.
I'll bet on science in every case.....

BPV, IDEC 100, MOD 70

 

Yes, well the subtle humour is all well and good referring to battering bows on ancient rowed war ships and comparing them to cruising multis, ho, ho ... but some forest North American Indians, namely in Northern Washington and British Columbia, also had reverse bows on their canoes, called sturgeon or ram ... and how old are they? One. two, many more millennium(s) ago? Fashion? Maybe?
But could it have been for parting water efficiently on lakes and rivers, very big lakes and rivers?
Reports were that these designs were very fast paddlers ... and also silent.
Some of the later and larger fur trade canoes also incorporated vertical to slight ram bows ... and they carried large payloads - sort of like being forerunners to modern cruising multihulls, no?

 

The Greek vessel is from the bronze age, well before native American designs. But the reverse bow as either a style or functional design is not new. But the latest designers tout it as if it is, as pointed out in another thread "there is nothing new under the sun".

We unfortunately have no way of knowing the reason why ancient cultures built their boats this way. It might have been practical necessity, superstition, tradition, or a keen eye for developing something that worked well for their needs. Might be a combination of all of these reason. consider the first ancient hunter that builds a canoe that is strange and unusual, goes out and gets a lot of fish. the next guy tries something different, and goes out and drowns. Guess which one everyone in the tribe will copy from than on?

 

Errrrrr Pick up mooring Bouy - Wind caught bow at low speed, need to rush across to bow - save helmsman having another attempt-- problem with anchore -- Spinnaker
blocks.

 

It seems to me that some of the merit of a reverse bow is being over looked. They do look to cut the water with less fuss and in my mind the better you achieve that the less opportunity there is for spray to be thrown. If the water is still in full contact with the bow at the point it slows and starts its descent then it seems to me to be logical that it is quieter and dryer. I can't say I agree with Richard that it equates to more drag, after all it takes quiet a bit of energy to throw water clear of the hull. Thinking more simplistically A Class design simply would have not gone in that direction if that where so.

... but then I am no designer... all I can say is that a SW24 is B wet and that front end has a heck of a lot to do with it!

 

I go along with that Petros ... but not too far.
You're talking about centuries here.
Fashion, good fish hauls, superstition, whatever, change through time.
Also you're talking about people acutely observant to nature, climate, conditions, environment; people who were experts.
No, there are scientific and practical reasons why such designs occurred.

 

yeah, no... that can be achieved from the tramp if things are set up right.

I'd suggest a decent pole in the hands of a competent deck hand used from further back the boat is a better option in all circumstances no matter how wide the foredeck.

again... setup, you should not need to go that far forward to sort these things.

I have not found the need to run anything off the bows and unless the forward beam is well back I would think that on a cruising boat you could, and to my mind should, avoid doing so.

 

This is the battle i was thinking of,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lade

I believe they had a presentation about this battle on the History Channel recently.

 

Yes I know it is not truly what might be called a plumb bow, but actually if you took a line from the front of the bulb up to the deck it would be almost 'plumb vertical'.

I believe we refer to this graceful bow by Lock Crowther as a 'tulip bow'. I included one as an alternative on this 60' cat.

 

forgive me lord

I just couldn't help myself.
My new 46' cruising cat has reverse bows because I love the look of them!
They also reduce windage and weight slightly. The stems will be fine as usual, fine stems are dry stems. [Seen any fast navy boats with fat stems?] Some designers have just woken up to fine stems, [one pictured in this thread].
Any designer who is relying solely on buoyancy in the bows for safety when pushing hard better get a new job].
It has a front cockpit because it is safer, dryer and the boat is faster, [these things add up to more fun].
A rotating mast, again because it is safer and faster for less rig height/expense etc [guess what? more fun].
It has outboards because they are cheaper, lighter, lift clear of the water so are therefore safer, oh and they are very reliable and economical.
It is built from balsa cored panels because they are enormously strong, quick to build with and are naturally fair.
It has one daggerboard for simplicity, speed and height.
I'm going to try one rudder on this boat, again for simplicity [monos and tris have one rudder, 'wow' how do they manage that]] I'm also going to try a canard just cos I have always wanted to.
I call it a clunky old cruising boat, we'll see I guess.
Chat amoung yourselves, I'm off to drink wine with Mr and Mrs Bacchus.

 

Hello Bob! I love your design philosophies. Great to see you on here. When you say your new 46 cruising cat, are you talking the one you are building for yourself? Or do you mean you will have it available as a plans again? I have missed your website since it went offline. I can't even see specs of your old designs so I can compare them to other designers. I hope after you build your boat you will have time to sell plans again. Well I am not actually sure what you are up to but rumor has it you are building your own cat to cruise on for retirement. Sounds like an awesome plan.

Please show us some pics of the 46er!

 

Bob. Pull the other one.

 

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Thanks, Bob!

 

Pluse One!!!! Don't go away!

 

God couldn't make it but he left me in charge, you are forgiven.

PUKTURES please.... if you have any to share. We would love a sneak peak!