Revelations about zinc electrodes.

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by CDK, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 2,521
    Likes: 47, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 223
    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    Fully agree with you, but I am moving into unknown territory. As per example, 36 – 48 Volt on the boat. 25Kwh LifePO4 instead of a small 0.8 Kwh Lead acid battery, only 2 wires a plus and a minus, no other wires etc. etc. Thus I have to explore and listen what other people say and then make my decision. For me CDK made some very good suggestions and so did you.

    Yes, it will be a trail-able boat and you are right it will be problematic. But it is more complex. If I use mild steel, which is painted or powder coated, it does not make contact with seawater, except if I make a plan. That means normally it will oxidise at that spot, even if I mount a zinc on such a keel. If I use SS, it also will corrode, but it makes good contact.
    What is better, I will chew it over for a few weeks.

    You are right, I am fully aware of the dilemma I am in. Did they use 316 or 304 ??

    Very nice and handy pdf file.
    Bert
     
  2. CDK
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 3,324
    Likes: 148, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1819
    Location: Adriatic sea

    CDK retired engineer

    I know you mean well Bert and believe me, I ignore 99% of his ramblings, misinterpretations and outright lies, but on my turf he crosses a line.
    His one and only statement on this forum I fully endorse was "I am not an engineer".:?:

    But in spite of all the static in this thread, we have seen valuable contributions as well, like the way MikeJohns treats zinc electrodes and several other ones.

    Btw, pointing a retired Siemens director to a 1th graders handbook about electricity (post #80) seems almost insulting to me.
     
  3. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 2,521
    Likes: 47, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 223
    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    Indeed, it is your thread CDK, even I deviated from your topic. But in good spirit, I learned again from your thread. I would have centrally connected the whole routie-me-toetie to one central point, although I have no problem in designing electronic equipment. Even I have sailed a substantial amount of sea miles, building a boat is a different field and I have to learn and stumble over all the obstacles coming my way. CDK, I must say, that link from Michael to the pdf file http://www.kastenmarine.com/_pdf/mbqCref.pdf was very fruitful and interesting. Sometimes a foreigner express himself in a good manner, but it comes over in the wrong way. Maybe you should give it the benefit of the doubt.
    Bert
     
  4. CDK
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 3,324
    Likes: 148, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1819
    Location: Adriatic sea

    CDK retired engineer

    Of course Bert.
    I rose early this morning and read Kasten's document from beginning to end. What I particularly like is the graphic representation of electrical potentials on the front page, although a simple table is probably easier to read.
    In the text I found nothing new, which is not surprising because the document is 20 years old.

    There are some minor flaws, like the explanation about AC voltages rising to +120 and -120V 60 times per second (should be 170V) and the colors used for wiring in 220V areas. Also the warning about graphite in grease isn't very smart.

    A major flaw is how he treats zinc electrodes. Welding the iron strap is just plain wrong. This burns the few mils of zinc away and encourages fast depletion of the zinc body while reducing the ability to provide protection at further distances.
    And his advice not to paint the electrode is also wrong of course, although he probably meant painting the whole electrode, not just the strap and fasteners.

    It may even be beneficial to install an oversized piece of zinc and insulate part of it with an epoxy paint to keep it passive until needed, more or less like retard tablets that slowly shed their active contents. But that just occurred to me today and I haven't fully though that through.

    What I find quite disturbing are the many references to ABYC, which seems to be the Moses of the boating industry. Imho people should be urged to think and reason, not blindly following instructions.
     
  5. WickedGood

    WickedGood Guest

    A little History.

    Most common people did not have a Vacume cleaner way bac in the 1930s and very few people had fiberglass boats. The most common use for Zinc was that to Amalgamate the Mercury in filling for teeth; That and to harden lead in cast Boolits so thet they could be fired at a higher Velocity. Velocity which is represented by the Greek Symbol v has recently been corrupted by some forginers learning electronics in American Schools that dont know that v does not stand for Voltage.

    The Proper law as stated by inventor Georg Simon Ohm is that E (Voltage) is equal to I(Amps) divided by r (resistance).

    If one were to amalgamate Zinc with Lead and Copper a current would flow do to Galvanic Corrosion. This theroy was proved by using a cooking Kettle in the Gally of a Wooden boat whose hull was was fastened by zinc coated clinch nails. The REsult was a fine display of Saint Elmos Fire which killed the Cook. you can all about this in the book entitled "Die galvanische Kette"

    To get back on the point. A very good use of Zinc is in the fishing of a Tin Squid. It sinks at the proper rate due to its Atomic Wieght and has ashinny surface when polished with BrassO. It also will vibrate in the resonace acoustical frequency as was demonstared by Mr Carles Lightfoot and made famouse by Gordan Lightfoot in his Ballard, The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Proof theat the End Result of Not using quality Zincs is Not a Happy One.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Bizarre.
    CDK, I know Siemens is huge and has worldwide and diversified presence but a long shot here... I was curious if you had anything to do with MRI?
     
  7. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 16,790
    Likes: 1,714, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    I don't believe a cooking on a kettle will produce the voltage necessary for St. Elmo's Fire.
     
  8. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
    Posts: 1,868
    Likes: 94, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 1146
    Location: Newfoundland & Nova Scotia

    viking north VINLAND

    Wicketgood, a famous newfoundland phrase,("some wicket good me son") Ya,you're a down easter, tin squid ,is that a local name for squid jigger, ours were always painted orange.
    Gonzo, I,ve eaten some Mexican food cooked in a kettle that created St. Elmos fire a short time lated on exit, that combined with MontiZumas Revenge.(spelling questionable)
     
  9. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 16,790
    Likes: 1,714, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Next time you eat Mexican, use your toilet reading time to learn Spanish
     
  10. WickedGood

    WickedGood Guest

    Monti Zumas.
    The Famous inventor from the island of Velopoula?
    Wow you guys are certainly Vagabonds of culture.

    Monti was one of the classic pioneers of the Kettle Theroy!




    [​IMG]


    How did my Rep points diminish expodentially from 37 to 20 points?
    Perhaps I have inadvertanly Offended someone?
     
  11. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
    Posts: 1,868
    Likes: 94, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 1146
    Location: Newfoundland & Nova Scotia

    viking north VINLAND

    Si Amigo,So i forgot to push the spacer bar, Thought it would be appropiate to sneak that in there to conform to the thread. Lifebuoy soap, now you're gettin close to home.
     
  12. CDK
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 3,324
    Likes: 148, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1819
    Location: Adriatic sea

    CDK retired engineer

    Aha, I understand.....No!
    That line was meant for BertKu, who was on their paylist. I founded my own company in '69; Siemens was one of our suppliers for various electronic parts, sometimes we cooperated for specific projects like solar energy.
     
  13. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 2,521
    Likes: 47, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 223
    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    Mark775, I also have to disappoint you. I headed the electronic components and micro computer division in RSA and as such I was only involved putting up the screened cubicle, as this was part of my responsibility. As you know, each MRI is mounted in a large metal cubicle to keep any interference out. The doors have special metal strips like a comb, to ensure no electro magnetic interference can take place. Apart from a few test, the actual equipment was handled by the medical division.
    Bert
     
  14. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 2,521
    Likes: 47, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 223
    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    I always thought E (Ego) is equal to I(insults) divided by r (resistance).

    Bert
     

  15. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 2,521
    Likes: 47, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 223
    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    CDK, that was a lot of crap I wrote in the previous thread. Sorry that I could not resist, after everybody else started to deviate. Thus, lets go back to thread No 1 and I am pleased you brought that to our attention. I would have made many mistakes in my project, if various good information was not brought to my attention.
    Bert
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.