Rethinking the smallest boat circumnavigation

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by stonedpirate, Feb 17, 2012.

  1. Nick.K
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    Nick.K Senior Member

    Looks like yours is too :)
     
  2. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Just re read the book for the umpteen time. In actual fact Tetley did complete a complete circumnavigation, Before his tri. sank he crossed his outgoing path. Knox Johnston stlill had a good two week lead on Moitessier so it was far from a foregone conclusion that he would not have won. RNJ won it fair and square and I think it is disrespectful to diminish his win based on a what if. Interesting on the suicide rate when you put it in percentages--of the nine men 22% took their own lives. Thats almost 1/4 -- weird.
    Looks like their records will never be broken-- I am one who is of the opinion to challenge any record you must use the same gear, not some more modern version. I.E. if I wanted to challenge RNJ's record i must do so in as close a duplication of his boat as possible. Anything else and it's not a level playing field.
     
  3. stonedpirate
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    stonedpirate Senior Member

  4. pdwiley
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    Ah, that one.

    Do you have Rosie Swale's book 'Children of Cape Horn'? Gibraltar Dec 1971 to Australia via the Panama Canal then return to Plymouth in July 1973 via Cape Horn.

    Rosie, her husband and 2 very small children in a 30' catamaran designed, IIRC, for coastal sailing.

    PDW
     
  5. ProtectTheOcean
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    ProtectTheOcean Junior Member

    I'm not going to berate you with sarcastic jabs. I'll point to a few flaws and let you decide for yourself what to make of it.

    Firstly, the kite depends on wind's existence, and in the desirable direction. There's a reason why the expression "capricious wind" exists. It also must be strong enough to keep your kite aloft at a bare minimum, and provide you with propulsion as well. That also means lines strong enough to handle the pull without breaking. (Now we're talking rigging cable.) Now you need a MUCH bigger kite, just to lift the weight of those lines. And then there's the issue of retrieving it when it inevitably ends up in the drink. I'd far rather you were talking about hydrofoils (no, don't go there). In short, no go.

    Regarding the cabin... you want to sit atop and have your goods beneath, right? Your CG is going to be ridiculously high, for starters. More to the point, no matter how modern your foulies are (literally, I don't care if they keep you at perfect temp and humidity the whole time) they're not going to keep you safely mounted on the vessel in a storm... and you WILL encounter storms. You'll be swept off, held under... in short, you will die... and make the rest of us look bad while doing it.

    I've always held that Columbus made it to the New World on boats made of 2x4s, tar and good intentions, so we CAN sail on far less modern technologies. But why go off the deep end? The guy who ROWS across the Atlantic has a specialized boat, a follow crew, etc. Keeping up with your 10' concoction would be nigh unto impossible, especially when you most needed the assist... and the rower was only crossing the Atlantic via shortest line. You're talking about circumnavigation.

    Ditch it. Your butt, but I'd be rubbing the sleep out of my eyes right about now, thinking "Man was THAT one weird freakin' dream!"
     
  6. stonedpirate
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    stonedpirate Senior Member

    yeah, as per my other thread, kite chair is dead
     
  7. Nick.K
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    Nick.K Senior Member

    There was no disrespect intended, on the contrary; but surely respect is due for participating rather than winning? I am sure I have read an account that put Moitessier ahead...but may be mistaken.

    Didn't RNJ donate his winnings to the Crowhurst family? Also worthy of respect.
     
  8. wildbill
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    wildbill Junior Member

    i believe he did .... what a bizarre documentary ... i saw that for the first time the other day ..... waste of talent......:confused:
     
  9. die_dunkelheit
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    die_dunkelheit NA Student

    Stoned, thank you for posting that. I just watched it, it is indeed a great show.

    Yes RNJ did donate his winnings to the Crowhurst family, it was one of the last lines of text at the end of the film..
     
  10. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Nick- it's the English language double meaning creeping in again--I did not mean you personally, just those bloody armchair sailers who started the whole debate in the first place. I am a speed reader and may have missed something in the book but I don't recall Monitissier having overtaken RNJ. I did recall he was gaining and it was expected to be a close finish. Then there's the other side of the coin, "It an't over untill the fat lady sings. "
    Any mishap could have put Moitessier out of the race between where he quit and the finish line. The contestant is made up of two parts, the vessel and the operator. Failure of the craft or it's operator is the eliminating factor. Plane and simple, as far as the race was concerned, Moitessier failed mentally -he had a personal gear failure-no different than his mast going over the side. Exactly what happened to Crowherst but later in the race. RKJ risked his life--his relationship--his very being to win. He held himself together long enough to finish and win the race. Unlike Moitessier, the vessel and the operator crossed the finish line first--Speculators be dammed---Robert won the race --end of story.
     
  11. Cpalm
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    Cpalm Junior Member

    I have been reading over these threads largely for amusement, and the question i keep coming back to is why the hell do you want to do this? As was mentioned before trying to sail around the world in the smallest boat possible is a stupid waste of time...no one cares and it does little if not absolutely nothing to advance boat design or anything really for that matter. You will most certainly die in the process, after spending your last days alive terrible cramped and cold.

    Instead why don't you look at buying or building a 20 foot sailboat, and if sailing the ocean is really your dream, try sailing the coast of Australia and once you've got a decent amount of experience try island hopping. With a 20' vessel you'll be a lot more comfortable and your chances of survival increase significantly.

    Have you ever been sailing before? It is not something that you will master in an afternoon or on the first day of your round the world journey. Before you think anymore about this plan i would suggest making some sailing friends and actually see what its all about and see if you really want to do this for days and weeks and months on end.
     
  12. Nick.K
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    Nick.K Senior Member

    No question!
    But comparasons and speculation can be instructive. Both Moitissier and RNJ had already completed significant trips in small boats, both were competitive but the competition was perhaps just a means to an end...another long trip.
    When Moitissier "retired" from the race he continued sailing for three months (Wikipedia. "sailing almost two-thirds of the way round a second time, all non-stop and mostly in the roaring forties"). Evidently he was in good shape. I think it was love of the sea that kept both men going rather than desire for a record or a prize. Incidentally Moitissier too gave away the proceeds from his book (though perhaps not to such a needy cause?)

    With relevance to this thread; to me, S.P has similarities with Crowhust. He seems to believe that a record will somehow elevate him from the ordinary and the journey is almost incidental in this objective.
     
  13. stonedpirate
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    stonedpirate Senior Member

    I am more like Moitessier minus the experience :p

    Moitessier said that any man who enters the ocean for money or prestige will break their necks. Moitessier never failed, he enlightened himself to the point where he realised that winning medals, prize money, fame and respect means nothing. He was about solitute, self discovery and spirituality. The ocean for him was his retreat, his monastery.

    Crowhurst was just trying to big note himself to fill his fathers shoes and used the race as a way to do it.

    I admit, i do lack experience and knowledge, but the record is just a means to an end. I wouldnt say Moitessier had a personal gear failure, he had a personal gear enightenment where the race no longer meant anything. He met up with his wife and family a few months later so he wasnt a complete selfish heartless prick. Sailing on to brazil instead of england was his way out of the limelight. He probably suffered from social anxiety disorder or whatever and found his peace on the sea.

    Psychiatry be damned, its your life, do what you want with it and let the haters hate.
     
  14. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    No disrespect for Moitessier he was indeed a world class sailer--comparing the two boats --Moitessier had the better and stronger so we should expect he would have made better daily averages.RNJ's boat in actual fact was a lifeboat hull very similar to my present build--good seaboats but not necessarly fast sailers. Also RNJ waisted alot of time detouring from the fastest track getting his mail packets off. In one case grounding which cost him a full day. Nick I agree on speculation for the sake of improving but seems like most every time this race is discussed--someone jumps in and the old --Ya RNJ won but Moitessier had him beat--Moitessier would have won if he had not quit-- Plane fact Moitessier could not mentially finish the race--I just think it takes away from the race in general and the participants in particular. Based on the people -the vessels and the technology available in that time period, I feel this is and will forever be the greatest race in the history of sailing.
     

  15. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

    These are remarkable actors in the lore of sailing.
    Who cares that they were even racing- this is simply the paper on which the story is writ eh?
     
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