Resistance factors, planing hull at low speed

Discussion in 'Hydrodynamics and Aerodynamics' started by Mr Efficiency, Dec 6, 2010.

  1. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Thanks Leo,

    1. Agree, but this effect exists. If model is running with wet transom and full-scale boat is dry transom, there should be some difference. If the flow from propeller effects flow separation at transom, there should be some difference also.

    2. 62 series models were 8' long. Do You agree that without turbulence stimulators such tests at FnL=0.3 and lower can not be considered accurate enough?
     
  2. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Everything in physics is based upon the quality of the devices used for measuring an observed event.

    The methodology and the accuracy of the measuring instruments being used play a significant part in any “experiment”. One can only answer the question of low Fn experiments by knowing what they measured how they measured it and with what devices and how accurate these devices were; are they calibrated correctly and frequently?.

    Theories are based upon real world observation. But the observation requires measurements...and measurements that are qualitative. The more accurate the device the better the quality data, which leads to better theories.

    As Leo has noted before, quiet rightly, the procedures/equipment that some ITTC test tanks use in their experimentation are somewhat lacking. Hence providing spurious results and leads to further confusion and hence lack of confidence.
     
  3. antiqueuniflite
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    antiqueuniflite Junior Member

    semi displacement hull at displacement speeds?

    is this plausible for all weather conditions? 27.3' uniflite is the boat me and my dad are wondering what to re-power it with?
     
  4. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    It's all in the vibe, I think ? :p
     
  5. Joakim
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    Joakim Senior Member

    If you specify exclusively on sailboat design, you may be right. But here are some which certainly design several sailboats a year and at least part of the staff is likely working about 100% with sailboats:

    http://www.hoekdesign.com/
    http://www.judel-vrolijk.com/
    http://www.finot-conq.com/
    http://www.germanfrers.com/
    http://www.farrdesign.com/
    http://www.juanyachtdesign.com/
    http://www.mills-design.com/
    http://www.kerdesign.com/index.html
    http://www.botincarkeek.com/
    http://www.simonis.com/
    http://www.reichel-pugh.com/index.html
    http://www.humphreysdesign.com/
    http://www.felciyachts.com/ita/
    http://www.blankyachtdesign.de/
    http://web.me.com/jcboats/CorbyYachts/HOME.html
    http://www.seaway.si/

    I don't know how many sailboats they designed 2010.

    Then there are many local small offices many of which do not even have web sites.

    Here is one from Finland:
    http://personal.inet.fi/yritys/strahlmann/index.htm
    He designed at least three production sailboats for 2010 (one designer office).

    Also there are several people designing purely sailboats for just one brand/company, like Jeppesen, but these you don't likely count, since they are not design offices.
     
  6. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    In Your list, just at first glance:
    - Judel/Vrolijk design powerboats one of those is very nice Grand Azur 33...
    - Mills was asking on this forum questions on powerboat design...
    - Humphreys has designed motoryachts one of famous is Ermis...
    - Etc. etc. etc.

    Dig a bit deeper and You will find a lot of interesting facts :)
    Besides many of designers also provide brokerage services, so they do not make living on design only... :D
     
  7. Joakim
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    Joakim Senior Member

    I didn't say these would be exclusively designing sailboats. Are you saying they are designing mainly powerboats like your office?
     
  8. Perm Stress
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    Perm Stress Senior Member

    :
    Originally Posted by Perm Stress View Post
    Sorry for being so stubborn, but my question was "why I could not use data, as published by the author?". If author find it possible to publish data starting from Fn=0.25, it is hard for me to see the reason not to use it.
    The question is where the data is published and why they are not included in technical paper? Agree that PBM is not scientific publication.

    I will ask Donald about this data, really interesting.

    It would be interesting to see the answer here.
     
  9. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    I am sure some of them are now...
     
  10. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Yes, for me also.

    But the details I found today morning are quite important - if there were no turbulence stimulators so the results are not reliable.
     
  11. Leo Lazauskas
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    Yes, there is something going on but, as I said previously, it's a poorly understood flow regime. The experiments of Doctors et al suggest that BL effects are not important, so the differences between small models and full-size could be due to unsteadiness, non-linearities, surface tension, viscosity, wave-breaking, all of those, or something else.

    Yes, I agree.
    But, even if stimulators were used, I would still be suspicious of the data.
    And moreso if the ITTC line was then used to extrapolate to full-size.

    Leo.
     
  12. Leo Lazauskas
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    1. Because the data was not meant to be used in the manner you propose to use it.
    2. Because it would be unprofessional to misuse the data that way.
    3. Because one should not have blind faith in results, even if they are published in a reputable journal.

    Just a few reasons off the top of my head :)

    Leo.
     
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  13. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    I had similar problems tank testing small-scale sailboat hull models, at low Fn. Since then, used to be careful with TT results :)
     
  14. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    So it follows that with or without turbulators the test data are all hopelessly inaccurate for displacement speeds? In other words, no hope for the humanity to get some reliable low-speed data from towing tanks? :\

    A logical question then follows: ...and now what?
     

  15. Joakim
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    Joakim Senior Member

    Why only for displacement speeds?
     
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