Resins and their fans

Discussion in 'Materials' started by gonzo, Mar 17, 2010.

  1. latman
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    latman Junior Member

    I agree polyester is not good enough to stick to wood , especially if water is involved ,It's hard to give up lovely conforming CSM mat though with epoxies though.
     
  2. pescaloco
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    pescaloco Senior Member

    I am a big fan of Vinylester for improved secondary bonding properties and just better overall quality for new projects

    Gonzo how do you feel about plywood and Vinylester ?
    And how about straight cloth no mat on PVC foam with VE ?

    Best Regards
     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I have laminated with vinylester over plywood with very good results. You can use it on foam without mat becuse the adhesion is superior to that of polyester.
     
  4. pescaloco
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    pescaloco Senior Member

    Gonzo
    Thanks I appreciate the feedback
     
  5. jerseysportfish
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    jerseysportfish Junior Member

  6. Herman
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    Herman Senior Member

    It is a bit biased, don't you think?
     
  7. ondarvr
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    95% of what I use is either polyester or VE and its the same with the main stream boat building industry. Why? Because it works and does a decent job affordably.

    The physical properties on the data sheet don’t tell the whole story, the cost of using epoxy in a production shop is much higher than just the difference in price between it and other resins, Epoxy is much more difficult to work with, the equipment used is more complicated and expensive and that's if there is any available, health concerns are much greater and more difficult to prevent (depends on the products used). If you want the physical properties listed on the data sheet you typically need to use a post cure cycle(s). In some markets the post cure cycle can be as much as 1/3 of the cost in producing the item. All this leads to a slower production line and much higher costs.

    With these higher costs come fewer customers for the item, so costs need to be higher yet.


    Using epoxy in a DIY project or very low volume production doesn’t lead to as big of a difference and it may possibly be about the same in cost.


    For well engineered high performance products that use fibers other than glass and aren’t very price sensitive, epoxy works great.

    For mass produced medium duty products built to a lower price point, polyesters and VE work well. Its hard to justify the need to use epoxy in a low end ski boat that will only be used the first couple years and then will be left to rot under a tree in the side yard for the next decade.

    When I need to use epoxy I do and when polyester or VE will do the job I use them. I’m not sure why these threads typically turn into a resin war, there are many tools in the box, just pick the right one for the job.
     
  8. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Each has its uses. I think that epoxy is often used where a cheaper resin would be adequate. In my opinion it is gold bricking.
     
  9. pescaloco
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    pescaloco Senior Member

    Quote:

    When I need to use epoxy I do and when polyester or VE will do the job I use them. I’m not sure why these threads typically turn into a resin war, there are many tools in the box, just pick the right one for the job.

    X2
     
  10. souljour2000
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    souljour2000 Senior Member

    I have never used Vinyl...just polyester or epoxy...would like to sample vinyl though...I totally agree with Pesca...whatever works for you...epoxy is great because it does not smell very much and is very good for interior work in that respect...As only a DIY guy...Epoxy would be my choice most all the time if it was not a cost matter...just because it don't smell....However...my sailboat was made of polyester resin and glass in 1983 by Hunter Marine and the job they did was fantastic..the gelcoat has a few stress-related spider cracks here and there...but mostly in areas adjacent to high-loads.... like the stanchions etc... and there were a few in the pop-top lid...before I did away with it....The polyester glass has held up exceptionally well...it's a great product....just stinks a bit if you ask me...polyester resin gets a bad rap in here at times..but it is a great product for the money and is as good as epoxy IMHO as far as what really matters...i.e. strength and durability...adhesion is not far behind either...actually as far as durability goes..I think polyester excedes epoxy in that department if the lay-up is done well.... because it is not nearly as susceptible to UV damage...
     
  11. jerseysportfish
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    jerseysportfish Junior Member

    is there a way to sample and analyze the type of resin the boat was built with or identify the resin ?
     
  12. Herman
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    Herman Senior Member

    A lab could do that easily. But you can try yourself as well. Sand or burn a piece of laminate, and the smell will tell.

    When sanding, polyester smells a bit burnt, and like styrene. If you smell an almond like odor, you are sanding fresh polyester. (styrene oxide smells like almond...)

    epoxyhas a different odor. Once you smelled it, you know.

    As for the different types of polyester resin: harder to do, but can be done in a lab. (ortho, dcpd, iso, ortho npg, iso npg, VE)
     
  13. jerseysportfish
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    jerseysportfish Junior Member

    i was also told when sanding/grinding epoxy is much harder.
     
  14. Herman
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    Herman Senior Member

    I do not really have that experience. It could be the case that with epoxy, a fabric is used. so the glass/resin ratio is higher. More glass = harder to sand.
     

  15. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Is there a different smell when you burn iso or ifto polyester?
     
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