Resin mixing gun questions, reccomendations?

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by comfisherman, May 17, 2021.

  1. comfisherman
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Alaska

    comfisherman Senior Member

    Volunteered to do layup with an outfit equipped with a resin mixing gun, was initially a chop gun but the chop capacity was long since disconnected. It made for much better layups of a large bulwark project they were doing. Having done a nearly identical job 6 months prior, it was orders of magnitude faster.

    The individual was given the gun years ago and a healthy set of spares, he's also adapted a lot on the fly as the setup appears to be a long since discontinued graco. So no luck duplicating the setup.

    I've got another large glass project hopefully to start in October. For the guys in the industry what do you reccomend for a basic resin mixing guns. My main requirement is 55 gallon drum capacity, and don't see a need for chopper gun features. So far I've interfaced with Phoenix systems, but would like to make sure I'm not headed down an abnormal path.

    What do you prefer for a gun that mixes at the nozzle?
     
  2. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    There are a couple of small regional outfits that cobble together spray equipment, but the only real supplier to the industry is Magnum/Venus.

    About 99% percent of the industry uses their products.

    External mix guns are the most common and easier to use, I tend to prefer internal mix, but they both work.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  3. comfisherman
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    comfisherman Senior Member

    In the magnum venus product range is there a specific model line that is used?

    Application will be very large bulkheads and decks on commercial boats.
     
  4. Dejay
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    Dejay Senior Newbie

  5. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    You'll need a full sized system, they can help you choose the correct options.

    They need to take many variables into account, just for wet out, or will you be using it for gel coat too.

    Hose length and diameter, type of tip, internal or external mix, multi color options, new or used, etc.
     
  6. comfisherman
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Alaska

    comfisherman Senior Member

    I think my phoenix quote was external mix, 100 foot hose, no gel coat, larger of the 2 pumps (small outfit only has 2 options), external mix with no stand.

    I'll dig up my local magnum dealer and shoot for an equivalent. Just trying to avoid getting an oddball. *edit Just realized your in Wa, any feedback on a good Washington dealer?

    Hate buying something that is a one off with less than common support.
     
  7. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    Where are you located?

    I'll be in AK with some other reps in the industry in August.

    Calling Magnum is the best option for information.
     
  8. comfisherman
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Alaska

    comfisherman Senior Member

    I buy everything out of Washington and Oregon, sadly I'll be fishing in August somewhere between kodiak and false pass. I've become a huge fan of rev chem in the last few years, although composite one and fiberlay dominate up here. The Russians are building some bay boats still, and sloth is making some ugly catamaran, but it's looking like stretches and repairs until we see fish prices catch up to inflation......

    My current project is in homer, home ported out of kodiak. Have 2 substantial glass projects ahead of me, wish I'd of bought a gun for the boat that's almost done now.
     
  9. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    We'll be in Homer at the end of August checking in with everyone you mentioned.
     
  10. KD8NPB
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: South Carolina

    KD8NPB Senior Member

    Magnum Venus is out of Kent, WA.

    There’s five main companies in production for plural component airless spray equipment;
    MVP (Magnum Venus Products) [WA,TN,FL]
    Phoenix Spray Equipment [FL]
    GS Mfg [CA]
    Graco ($$$$$)
    Binks (dying slowly)

    for your use, take a look at;
    Phoenix Spray Equipment
    LF1 , 5000 external mix

    Magnum Venus Products
    MiniPro 11:1, ATC4000 external mix

    both of these units are good for intermittent use, have low entry cost, and are small/portable.

    I highly recommend getting the chopper motor and teaching yourself to use it. Roving is a fraction of the cost of CSM, and rolls out substantially easier than CSM.
     
  11. comfisherman
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    comfisherman Senior Member

    Seems like the chop gun is only used for the first layer, with combination mat I'll not be using it often. But it's not a super expensive option and might help with some projects.

    Trying to decide on how much flow is necessary, on hull and deck layups we can cover enough area fast enough to use the bigger of the two Phoenix guns. The rest of the time it seems we could use the smaller volume.

    Have so far had good interactions with Phoenix systems, so will likely go that way.
     
  12. KD8NPB
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: South Carolina

    KD8NPB Senior Member

    Whatever you can do with chop strand mat, you can do with a chopper gun.

    Get a high ratio pump (15:1 or more) if you can, then you can use it for gelcoat too.

    if you’re waterproofing plywood with chop & polyester resin, chopper gun is the way to go.
     
  13. comfisherman
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    comfisherman Senior Member

    I'll probably never spray gel or rarely spray gel, and can confirm I'll never waterproof ply.

    Truth is my last project used one roll of csm to a pallet of combi. Looking forward my guess is very little deviation for my next big project.

    Good to know about graco and binks.
     
  14. KD8NPB
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: South Carolina

    KD8NPB Senior Member

    Straight 24 oz WR is half the price of combi WR. It’s lighter weight to ship, and is less prone to shear if bedded in wet chop. It’s easier to cut and manipulate, and there’s no binder to dissolve before deairing.

    bulkhead procedure for me has always been;
    Apply bonding adhesive (Scott Bader BP621CC85 preferred)
    Position bulkhead in
    Fillet putty with chip brush
    Chop over 60 to 90 mils @ 30% fiber
    Place lightly wetted directional knit on top
    Chop over 60 to 90 mils @ 33%+ fiber
    Paint roller
    Bubble roller
    Done

    32 ft boat took 45 to 75 minutes. We use CHP blended initiator during temps above 75F.
     

  15. comfisherman
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Alaska

    comfisherman Senior Member

    Your WR must be cheap....

    How wide a 32 are we talking? That's a pretty fast bulkhead. My last 32 foot bulkhead was on a 15.5 wide boat that supported a freestanding mast so took a bit more time than that.

    The chop would be nice on some tabbing fairing and doing the inside of fish holds.
     
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