Replace plywood strips in my billage floor?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by lvl, Sep 5, 2010.

  1. lvl
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    Location: Massachusetts

    lvl Junior Member

    Hey guys new to the forum and to fiberglass repair. I am replacing a transom in my 1972 winner quadralift. I was grinding where the keel meets the transom on the out side of the boat and found soft wood in the floor of the billage. After two hours grinding the billage floor I finaly removed the six strips of 1/2 inch plywood that were laminated in the billage floor. I am assuming there is no structual quality to these strips just put in there to build thickness? Is this right? If so I was just going to build the floor back up with like 1708 biaxial or just heavy biaxial cloth. What do you guys think?

    I could post pics later if you need.

    Thx
     
  2. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    What is the billage? Can you post some photos?
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Make, model, year, photos. Gonzo, billage is what I get in them mail from people I owe money.
     
  4. lvl
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    lvl Junior Member

    It's a 1972 winner quadralift. The billage area is the area in the boat that water collects so you can pump it out right? With a billage pump or am I using the wrong word?:eek:

    Here are some pics.

    Here it is when I first got it home.
    [​IMG]

    What I would call the "billage" area
    [​IMG]

    The "billage" floor after 2 hours of grinding
    [​IMG]

    Close up
    [​IMG]

    Bulkhead at the front of the billage area
    [​IMG]
    The yellow arrow is the hole I drilled the other was there when i got the boat. The floor on the inside of the hole I drilled is lower than the floor that I just ground down. How will the water ever get out if the floor lower behind the bulkhead?
     
  5. wardd
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    wardd Senior Member

    why do i think billage people?
     
  6. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    It's bilge or bilges. Replace the plywood and laminate fiberglass over it as it was before. Looks like you already cut off the engine beds and cleaned the area. Those plywood pads were for stiffening the area.
     
  7. lvl
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    lvl Junior Member

    This is an outboard boat. Do you think 1/2 x 2 inch wide strips will stiffen the area more than just solid fiberglass mat? What do you think about the water trapped on the other side of that bulkhead?
     
  8. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    ....those silly little pieces of wood do in fact stiffen up the area, they create beams and beams are stiffened by their distance apart, so the half inch height does create stifness......there are plenty of other ways to do the same thing, but these boats are built at a price, and this is a cost effective way to stiffen flat areas, quite common to see.
     
  9. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    From what I can see in the images, your sole is shot, needs replacement, the stringers are shot, needing replacement, the transom is shot and needs a new core, the sole support system, splash well sump and likely about every other wooden part covered or tabbed to with insufficient amounts of polyester resin all need to be replaced.

    The easiest method is to remove the deck cap and liner, hack out all the remaining bits of plywood and solid stock. Then consider your options in the rebuild. Use wood and polyester again, which will likely lead to the same set of problems 20 years from now - replace with wood and epoxy which if done properly, will get you more time before repairs compared to polyester - use an inert material such as foam, honeycomb, etc. and not have a wood rot problem any more, though the cost will go through the roof.

    In short, you have a boat shell, with a well worn out internal wooden structure. A rebuild with the same materials as it was built is the cheapest and least durable method to repair it. This isn't a small job. Your boat's durability would be dramatically improved with a switch to epoxy instead of polyester resin. Of course this comes at a cost, but not a very big one, once you count up all the other stuff you need.

    You've ground away a great deal of the necessary hull tabbing at the base of the transom, which suggests this is also the case in other areas. This tabbing needs to be restored. Use the search tool and look up sole replacement, transom replacement, stringer replacement, etc. and get an idea what you need to do.

    It also appears the boat was converted from an I/O to an outboard, but not properly. This isn't safe, nor legal and may have been the biggest cause of the destruction of the transom and aft portions of the internal structure.
     
  10. lvl
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    lvl Junior Member

    @PAR
    I have a "pretty" good idea of what I need to do(I think). I am wondering why you say this was an i/o conversion? It has a splash well and I have talked to 1 person in my area ( Probably the only other person on earth ) that has the same boat and its an outboard. It also has the plate mounted in the boat with the load capacities and says 130 hp on it which I would think would mean outboard.

    The stringers have no wood in them and are hollow fiberglass.:) The transom was how this whole project started.Its lookin more and more like i need to pull up the whole deck (which I really don't want to do) to see exactly what is going on under there

    @ Landlubber

    You say beams are stiffened by the distance apart. These strips were actually butted up against each other with no mat or resin between them.:confused:

    Thanks for all the replies
     
  11. Landlubber
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    ....the distance I am referring to is the moulded thickness (that is the measurement from the outside of the hull towards the centreline of the boat, this is only 1/2 inch in this case, but it still works.

    ...listen to PAR well mate, he does this sort of crap for a living and knows well what he does. (so do I incidentially, but do not consider myself on par with PAR)
     
  12. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Go for it lvl, but you may be confusing a sump well as a splash well. The appearance of intake vents on the sides of the deck cap are a very good indication the thing you think is a splash well is (or was) a sump under the engine on a I/O unit. It's also possible that the boat came both ways and the deck cap was cut to accommodate the I/O in some way, usually with a drop in (and tab on) engine compartment. It's hard to tell, much has been ground off and the pictures don't offer a good overview either.

    What I remember about these hulls was their fairly thick hull shell laminate and the weird hull shape. Sort of a moderate V form (guessing 15 degrees) with two really wide strakes, making substantial longitudinal steps.
     
  13. lvl
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    lvl Junior Member

    Ah yes it does have those vents in the sides. Are those something that are usualy an i/o thing? This is my first real boat and was just wondering what you saw that would tip you off to an i/o conversion.

    It also looks to have filler hoses(black arrow in pic) as if it had a built in tank which it doesn't. Kind of weird.Would the green area in the pic be considered a splash well?

    [​IMG]

    You definitley have me concerned about if it was an i/o and it was converted you say its not legal. Would that mean it could never be considered safe? I do plan on bringing my kids on this thing if I ever get it fixed properly.
     
  14. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The more I see of the boat, the more I'm convinced it was a conversion. It could be a factory conversion or a boat owner. It's only illegal if you hurt someone and they sue and it's found that the boat was modified in an unsafe way, which was the result of the incident. There's a lot of "if's" there so calm down.

    The basic problem with this type of conversion is the transferring torque and loads to the bottom from the transom bracket (on the engine). This generally means the former engine beds are tabbed into the transom and the transom is beefed up to accept the weight and torque of the outboard, maybe different stringer arrangements..

    On a factory conversion this is often done with a "drop in" which is a perfectly pre-fitted set of pieces that are tabbed into the hull shell and/or liner/deck cap. This usually looks like storage areas on each side of the splash well, but contain longitudinal and athwart stiffeners. These stiffeners can be plywood, covered in fabric or just laminate. Almost all examples of boat from this era will have plywood cores in the transom. This will range in thickness from 1.5 to 2.75, depending on the HP requirement.

    Get a 6' ladder, place it about 4' behind the boat, climb to the top step and take a down looking picture of the boat. This will show what is there, instead of a transom corner, which tells me little.
     

  15. lvl
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    lvl Junior Member

    Ok here are some more pics sorry I'm not so good at taking pics I guess.

    This is a pic of where the deck met the transom before I cut it out. (Starboard)
    [​IMG]

    Inside looking at the transom
    [​IMG]

    Outside lookin down
    [​IMG]

    Looking at the front of what I would call splashwell
    [​IMG]

    Looking at the back of "splashwell"
    [​IMG]

    Looking ath the starboard side of "splashwell"
    [​IMG]

    I had to remove the "splashwell" to replace the transom. Hope that helps you help me. lol
     
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