repairing a hartley 16? a few questions

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by martinworswick, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. martinworswick
    Joined: Sep 2008
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    martinworswick Junior Member

    i have just got my first boat,i'm not positive but i think its a hartley 16, it was on a trailer which is in good condition,all the sails,the mast and rigging etc seem in pretty good shape but the boat itself needs a few repairs

    there are a couple of soft spots to cut out and repair and a large hole in the transom,it looks like its been reversed into something,pushed the outboard mount through the transom then driven forwards and torn the mount and a part of the transom away from the boat.

    now,before i go any further i'll explain my intentions with this boat, it will be used pretty much exclusively on a local lake, and realistically for about 3 weeks at the most a year,just daysailing it when the weather complies.
    hopefully my wife will learn to sail on it,enjoy it,catch the bug and want to get something a bit bigger in a couple of years time:D, i'd also like to take my son out,do some fishing etc etc,
    the rest of the time it will be covered on my driveway.

    i'm not looking to do a full restoration and have a never competed job on my hands, i just want to get it fixed up enough so i can have some safe enjoyable fun when the warmth rolls around in a few months.

    with this in mind i was thinking of repairing the soft spots and the transom and repainting the whole thing

    the questions---

    i was wondering whether to cut out the whole transom and replace it or just patch it. if i replace it i have a few options for materials, i have on hand a whole bunch of cedar strips and a couple of sheets of xps polystyrene i'd prefer to use these as i already have them.otherwise if those arn't recommended i can buy ply, either construction grade or marine.

    for the soft spots i was thinking about cutting them out and using cedar

    these repairs i would glass over with epoxy

    for the painting would exterior household gloss enamel suffice? it seems to be a lot cheaper than any marine stuff i can find.

    any suggestions appreciated
    cheers
    martin
     
  2. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    There are hundreds, if not thousands of previous threads here about repairing holes and other damage issues.

    Replace plywood with plywood, because solid wood (like your cedar) doesn't have the cross grain stiffness that plywood does, so the cedar repaired area will be much weaker.

    Generally you want to cut the bad spots out, cutting back until you find good wood, then scab in a repair. That's the real quick description.

    Paint is a mixed bag and generally you get what you pay for. House paint works, but just doesn't last very long, if the boat sees much use and doesn't last at all if used under the LWL while the boat is moored. Always use high gloss when using house paint. If you want a satin or flat finish you can apply a coat or two of this over the gloss, but always use gloss as the base. This is because flat paints absorb moisture and satin is only slightly less so, but gloss offers the best moisture resistance. I just did some doors for a guy's boat and used super high gloss, then wet sanded and buffed it down to a nice satin finish. He'll never know and loves the finish.
     
  3. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Par is right on the numbers... There should be a hartley owners club somewhere... They are sweet designs and easy to build... It may be easier and quicker to get the plans and build a new one and put all the old 'hardware' back on? marine ply and stitch and glue (better glues nowdays - try West-System and woven tapes on the joins - the finish still looks good with a clear epoxy gloss finish if you have minimal external bog...

    I will post some images of a friends rowing scull http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-building/my-little-piece-peace-25962-101.html#post468844
     
  4. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I'd only consider building a new boat, if this current boat is a total wreck, which it doesn't sound as if it is.

    A very inclusive inspection should be preformed before you get too far into it. Usually where there is visible rot, there's lots more where you can't see. Without pictures or a better description, it's difficult to suggest a reasonable course for you, but spend a day crawling around in the bilge and all the out of the way places, poking and prodding to find rot and other issues. Once identified, you can make a list of priories and get started on the most pressing issues.
     
  5. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Par it is a 16 ft semi open sail boat, built using ply and stitch & glue... Many were built and sailed in PNG, Aussy, and I presume NZ... NO enclosed bilges but several sealed boyancy voids/structural sections... Sailed very easily, could make passages (for the very adventurous)... In consideration of the construction and engineering it may be easier and quicker to build again from scratch... as it was all hard-chine ply and with frames and structural parts tieing it all together ... (not quite a stressed skin) ... and imparting the gentle curves into a replaced section would not be easy... but bending the whole length would be quite natural to achieve... A very sweet little boat for lots of fun on the water...

    http://www.trailer-sailer.com/
    http://mytrailersailer.com/ is in-depth in building and lots more
    http://www.hartley-boats.com/16b.html plans = US$48 airmailed to you...
     
  6. masalai
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    masalai masalai

  7. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I'm very familiar with the design Masalai, though his description suggests a few patches may be all she needs, so a purchase of ~20 sheets of plywood and hundreds of linear feet of solid stock, seems a wee bit of an over reach.
     
  8. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Ahhh, I did not test the quantities, I was guessing at 12 or so sheets... His location is NZ where the design originated, and there should be a good support network there...

    I was thinking of rot on a linear-join and the "fun" there would be in matching the curve in the sheet as bent around the frames in construction...
     
  9. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I have no doubt there will be additional rot (and other issues), it's the nature of the beast, particularly of that build type. There are a few Hartley owners groups and support systems. I'd recommend he log onto (> http://www.woodworkforums.com/f29/ <) and preform a search for this support closer to home.
     
  10. martinworswick
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    martinworswick Junior Member

    thanks for the replies guys, i'm planning on getting stuck in to the old paint this weekend and will hopefully see the full extent of what needs doing in a bit more detail.i'll call down to the local hardware store and order the marine ply i'm going to need as i'm pretty sure they won't stock it.
    in the future i may build a boat from scratch but i just want to get this one on the water,as long as its safe i'll be happy
    i'll have a good look at those links for more info,cheers again,martin
     
  11. martinworswick
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    martinworswick Junior Member

    is it a hartley?

    heres a few pics of the boat.
    anyone know what it is? i thought a hartley 16 but i'm not so sure?
    anyway i've been attacking it with a sanding disc and a poker all morning,
    so far i've made maybe half a dozen holes in soft spots i found, i'll cut them out properly,patch with marine ply and glass over, i was also thinking to put extra glass on areas that take the loads. i'll remove pretty much the whole transom and replace the whole thing i think, i reckon 2 sheets of ply will do the whole boat.
    after that paint the whole thing and start learning to sail!
    does that sound like a reasonable plan?
     

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  12. martinworswick
    Joined: Sep 2008
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    martinworswick Junior Member

    pelin cherry 16

    after a bit of searching i'm pretty sure its a pelin cherry 16.

    the pictures probably make it look worse than it is, it looked quite attractive before i went at it with the disc sander,i'm going to repaint it so any paint which looked remotely loose got sanded/scraped.

    i reckon 1 sheet of ply will be more than adequate for the repairs, and i have a leading bid on a bunch of fibreglass offcuts which should be more than adequate.

    1 question though, a friend told me to use epoxy with the cloth as epoxy will go over polyester without a problem but polyester won't go over epoxy .

    polyester is cheaper though and i can't find any info to support his claim,is he misinformed?
     

  13. JRD
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    JRD Senior Member

    Epoxy vs Polyester

    Hi Martin

    Your freind is right, you need epoxy. Search it on forums here there are 100s of debates, and epoxy wins all of them. In addition to the technical advantages its easier to use, less fussy if you get the ratios slightly (very slightly) wrong and it wont stink out your whole neighborhood with chemicals.

    Whichever you use, you need somewhere dry to work as nothing will stick properly to wet wood, and you need the wood to dry out first.

    Shop around for epoxy there are big differences in price. Hardware shops sell the small packs for about the same price as you can buy twice as much from a wholesaler like High-Modulus or Adhesive Technologies. My 2009 price list from HM shows about $120 for a Westsystem 4 litre pack with hardener. I have seen 1 L packs at at hardware shops as high as $90 with hardener. Judging by your pictures you will be needing more than 1L :)

    If you are new to boat repair work have a look on West System web site there are alot of free how-to guides and videos.

    If you want meaningful advice here its best to post pictures of specific problem areas, and someone will mostly jump in and offer something of use.
    Good luck
    Jeff
     
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