Renderings of our new model, would like some building help

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by raffshore, Mar 9, 2014.

  1. raffshore
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: belgium

    raffshore Junior Member

    Hi, Since a couple of years we are building (very) high performance waterski raceboats. I designed it early 2000 and since I have build 19 boats that are competing are being used as a pleasure boats.

    A couple of years ago I had my hand build plug reverse engeneered and since I have been doing all the 3D drawing myself

    on my FB page there are tons of pictures : www.facebook.com/RaffshorePowerboats

    I have the idea now to build a high performance wooden version, based on the race proven V hull design.

    My inboard version with a mercruiser HP500 and bravo drive does 88MPH all day long and that a 1480kg race ready boat (with 200L of fuel in it)

    The idea is to use a fiberglass/polyester (or vinylester or epoxy) bottem and to use marine mahogany (or look alike) plywood for the sides and deck.

    I would like some ideas and input for the build off the hull sides and deck since I am relatively new to this.

    With a 7/16 (10 - 11mm) sheet of plywood I can use the exsisting mold to create the sides of the hull since the bends are not to aggresive.

    The inside hull sides I would cover also with epoxy or vinylester and glass to make sure it will be a long lasting product.

    Questions that I have are :
    Should I cover the outside with glass?
    What producs to use for the finish of the wood
    What products should I use to color the wood to the desired darkness of the wood?
    How to make the deck lines etc

    If there is any interest here I can show the build here.

    Thanks,

    Raf

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. raffshore
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: belgium

    raffshore Junior Member

    Also , to build the windscreen :

    How to build the wooden windsceen rounding?
    What should I use to build the glass?

    Thanks,

    Some more renderings :

    [​IMG]

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  3. Eric Sponberg
    Joined: Dec 2001
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    Location: On board Corroboree

    Eric Sponberg Senior Member

    Hi Raf--Welcome to the Forum. Nice looking boat. I wonder about using the mold to build the wood sides--I would think that you are never going to get the plywood to lay perfectly flat against the mold, so it will not result in an accurate shape. And this also begs the question, that building a fiberglass bottom to a wood hull necessarily makes the boat a hybrid construction, which is really unusual. It is almost better to build the whole boat out of wood if you really want a wood boat. But, if a fiberglass bottom is what you want to do, for sure, then go for it. I would recommend building the hull sides on their own formers, with transom attached, build the bottom separately, and then marry the two together. Finish off with a deck, also built separately or in place. I just think that would be easier and more accurate to the hull lines.

    To answer your questions:

    Should I cover the outside with glass?
    Yes, I think I would, and I'd recommend two sealing coats of clear epoxy, sanded between each coat, and then a layer of fiberglass cloth, about 10 oz/sq.yd boat cloth over the whole. You'll have taped seams, most likely, at the chine joint between the glass bottom and the wood sides, so the outer layer of glass cloth helps to blend that in and give additional protection to the wood grain.

    What producs to use for the finish of the wood?
    After the layer of glass cloth has cured. Sand it down thoroughly and fair it, and I would use classic oil-based spar varnish. The amber color of the spar varnish will enhance and darken the wood slightly, and it is also more flexible and wears better than, say, a polyurethane finish. Polyurethanes tend to be absolutely clear when cured, so they don't color the wood. They are also very brittle and can crack easily. Overall, I prefer spar varnish, but you will get others commenting here extolling the virtues of polyurethane. Take your pick.

    What products should I use to color the wood to the desired darkness of the wood?
    You can use any good quality stains prior to laminating the glass or varnishing.

    How to make the deck lines etc?
    You can buy ready-made panels that have the planking lines already in. These are made out of real wood, or you can get plastic versions. Shop around. You can also make them yourself. The deck would be in two layers--the under plywood layer, and then the planking layer. Set the planks about 3mm apart and then caulk between them with adhesive caulking of the appropriate color (either black or white, white being more traditional).

    How to build the wooden windsceen rounding?
    Use thin strips of laminated mahogany, laid up over a former or mold to the exact edge of the glass.

    What should I use to build the glass?
    I would recommend laminated glass because you can buy it to the exact shape if you give templates to a glass supplier. Make a wood template of the exact shape using laminated wood over a former or mold, and send that to the glass supplier. The glass supplier can duplicate the shape with finished edges in glass.

    I hope that helps.

    Eric
     
  4. SukiSolo
    Joined: Dec 2012
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    Location: Hampshire UK

    SukiSolo Senior Member

    You may have a problem with getting the shape shown on the top rendering at the stern deck. There is quite a sharpish curvature there, veneer will bend to this under vacuum but ply won't. There may also be some 3 D curvature, there are tricks to deal with small ammounts but not much. So it would be worth making some stiff paper or mylar film (drafting film) templates to ensure it will lay where you want it.

    Good luck with the project.
     
  5. Westfield 11
    Joined: Apr 2008
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    Location: Los Angeles

    Westfield 11 Senior Member

    How come it is so slow? 88mph is nothing to brag about for nearly 500HP. My 24' 1983 Daycruiser can be propped for 74 and it weighs 5000lbs and only made 515hp on a dyno and runs a crappy TRS drive. 14 more mph in a race boat that is lighter and has the benefit of 30 more years of technology is kind of lame. And yes, my hull was designed back in the early 1970's as an openwater ski-racer for the annual Catalina Waterski Race from Long Beach to Avalon.
     
  6. raffshore
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: belgium

    raffshore Junior Member

    The speed question is totally of topic but here it goes.

    I was not at all trying to brag about speed ! Then 88 is allday long with whatever what driver and with skier (skier is worth 3 to 4 miles)

    What kind of power you need to get from 74 to 88 you think?
    I'll tell you around 400...

    Our outboard F2 with a 300 XS does 80 with skier

    Best we had out of it is 94 with the 500EFI without skier (30P bravo lab finished spinning at rev limiter 1.5 :1)

    Now it has a blown 496 carburated dynoed at 754 HP (now don't you ask me why it only makes 754 :) ) and we are doing 103 with skier.

    But your 83 daycruiser is some boat mister and feel free to come and try one of our boats whenever you want
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. raffshore
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    raffshore Junior Member

    Hi, you have an eye for detail mister, nice found, as you can see I changed that in the later drawing.
    thanks for the info
     
  8. raffshore
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: belgium

    raffshore Junior Member

    thanks for the warm welcome Eric.

    I'll post tomorrow some pics of how we build our hull and you will understand why I want to keep a fiberglass hull.

    I have also been thinking about building the sides fro scratch.

    Thanks for the info

     
  9. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: 26 36.9 N, 82 07.3 W

    LP Flying Boatman

    I love wood and every boat I have built has large areas of varnished, epoxy coated wood. If build with epoxy, it has to be protected from UV. The varnish that you use will need to have UV barriers in it, but it needs to be noted that these barriers have a limited lifespan based on the amount of time your vessel is exposed to direct sun light. This means maintenance or a boathouse. This isn't to deter you, but to make you aware that a wooden boat has a price. I've built 7 1/2' kayaks all of the way up to a 19' O/B powered runabout. My first build was a 16' strip built sloop. It is nearing 10 years in age and has been stored inside for most of it's existence. It was stored outside for a 1 1/2 under tarps and required a fair amount of repair after it was brought back inside.

    I used a 10 oz. fabric on the hull of the sloop and the fabric is visible on close inspection. A 6 oz. fabric will be considerably less visible and should be all you need if it is used solely for abrasion resistance.

    I mentioned that my first build is about 10 years old now. The reason I mention this is that under the epoxy, fiberglass and varnish, the woodgrain appears to be fading and less defined. It is still obviously wood catches the eye, but I think that the it doesn't have the definition and beauty of a fresh varnished finish. I don't truly know what a varnish only finish would look like after 10 years. There may be a point in the life of a straight varnished where it comes off (removed) and is completely renewed, invigorating the brilliance of the wood again. With an epoxy and varnish finish, the epoxy is on for the life of the boat (unless neglected or damaged) and there is never the opportunity refresh the brilliance of the wood.

    I'm building a 24' sailer now and plan to have horizontal surfaces painted white for lower maintenance and heat reduction and bright vertical surfaces to show off the natural beauty of the wood. This scheme would not enhance your design and is more for function than for aesthetics.

    Good luck your plan.
     
  10. Wayne Grabow
    Joined: Aug 2003
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    Wayne Grabow Senior Member

    raffshore,
    I keep coming back to your post because the design pictures you posted are so beautiful. I especially like the first set, showing a mahogany wood finish. The design reminds one of a traditional runabout, but it isn't; instead it is a thoroughly modern rendering. The lines give a sense of simplicity with excellent proportion. I like the long taper to the bow with the deep V forefoot. I couldn't have imagined that such a hull, with no tumble home, little bow flare, and almost no deck camber could look so elegant. Thank you for sharing your concept.
     
  11. raffshore
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: belgium

    raffshore Junior Member

    Thank you Wayne.

    You mean these colors?

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  12. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    TANSL Senior Member

    The boat is gorgeous and I wish to be able to design something similar to that. Has something to improve, for example, access to water for swimmers, access to the engine compartment, solarium area, which is under cover, how manage and where to store anchor ... But as an exercise pure of forms is very, very good. Livability is another aspect that some have in mind and there, perhaps, something still can be improved.
     
  13. raffshore
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: belgium

    raffshore Junior Member

    Hi Tansl,

    Yes you are right, there are still a lot off features to build in. But for me these renderings and drawing are just to check if the design in my head would look like I think and look good to other persons. The amount of time that goes into these drawings is almost as much as building it.

    If you have ideas feel free to share and I will consider.

    Bye
     
  14. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    TANSL Senior Member

    raffshore, I would like to have the creativity that you have to be able to advise on the design of your boat. What you have to take into account, and technical know, is that a very beautiful object is not a boat. It can be very decorative to take a cabinet but being totally useless as a boat. So if someone asks opinion to others on a boat, a boat must be presented gto the analysis of others.
    You have asked on analizing your "renderings", ie, you never talked about your "boat". What I want to warn you is that, when transforming your object on a boat, you should consider many things that will surely break the harmony of your current forms.
    Beautiful rendering.
    Cheers
     

  15. Wayne Grabow
    Joined: Aug 2003
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    Location: Colorado

    Wayne Grabow Senior Member

    Yes, absolutely gorgeous! I agree with TANSL's comments, but, since recreational boats (such as this) to a great extent appeal more to our emotional side rather than any practical need, esthetics can be a higher priority than functional concerns. Hopefully you can satisfy both.
     
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