Recycled Tri?

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by rustysunner, Dec 24, 2008.

  1. rustysunner
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    rustysunner Junior Member

    Been seriously considering putting together a trailerable tri daycrusier in the 18-22' range with as many (sorry,I know this is blasphemie to some) preexisting parts as possible. Sailing, and loading are likely solo so any dead weight is a consideration during set up. Besides ease of set up, performance is a goal also.

    I have access to two 20' Sol Cat hulls cheap. Also available are two Hobie 18' hulls cheaper. I've no idea what volumes these hulls are, nor how heavy they are, so basic ?'s for now.

    -Would a larger volume, and or longer ama hull tend to win in this decision? Is there more info. needed? ( or is this blonde vs brunette with this small a boat?)

    -Is there a reason besides least weight that most tri's. seem to have a narrow displacement style center hull rather than a skiff style planing hull?

    -I've read where outside hulls being low volume, or shorter than the main hull sometimes can be submerged on the lee side and can make pitchpoleing more likely. What probs. are forseen if the main hull happened to be shorter than the ama's? (besides ugly)

    -Couldn't added flotation in an ama's tip help prevent it's submersion, and pitchpoleing?

    -Centerboard, daggerboard, Bruce foils, Exploder 25 style foils? Huh? When and why?

    -Would a diagonal tapered foil similar to Exploder 25, or Hydropter help prevent submerging?

    -Is there less drag with such a foil then with a larger hull?

    Sorry if some of these are repeat ?'s. I'm sure I've missed pertinent design comments while ignoring everything during the squabbling. (A bad habit I developed with the ex.) I think I'll ask about folding another time.
     
  2. basildog
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    basildog basildog

    Check out thread on this site 'New Beach trimaran' by Chris Ostiland. It will be perfect for what you are asking
     
  3. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    On another thread in these forums, a contributer called "IKE" said this.

    "For some strange reason almost every man born thinks they can design a better boat than anyone else. Who knows why. Maybe it's hardwired in our brains. Few people would think the same about an airplane or even a car, but a boat? Yeah man, I can design a better boat than you can, !!!!"

    As the Cowardly Lion said in The Wizard of OZ --"Ain't that the truth---Ain't that the truth !!!
     
  4. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    I have my own opinions regarding this condition, but I'd like to hear yours, specifically, OS7. If anyone else has a take on this subset of thought on the thread, please let it fly.
     
  5. jamez
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    jamez Senior Member

  6. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Yes we showcased the Solcat in our front showroom in Toronto during 1976-7 for the guys who were importing them.
    I was a sort of poor mans Tornado and fitted into the, by then, defunct B class cat catgegory.

    It was a good boat but a bit heavy as it was made of solid fibreglass and a bit narrow by modern standards.
    My friend Dave Green had one and used to race around Frenchmans Bay just East of Toronto and got a lot of fun out of it. I don't think it ever developed into a racing class.
     
  7. PortTacker
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    PortTacker Junior Member

    Actually neat question. Why indeed? (being guilty myself)

    Perhaps it's seeing other's solutions to the challenges, and arriving at our own solutions, thinking they're worth exploring.

    As for me, I think it's threefold. I am somewhat artistically inclined and mechanically adept, and having 35+ years of sailing experience I'd just like to try my own ideas (i.e the fun of the challenge, and of course - Ego.) and the other is that my *personal* concept of the ideal boat *for me* is never quite met in the boats I find, leading me to want to design my own.
    When I was a kid, it was just fun! I built my first boat at 12 years old. I designed it, built it, sailed it, and revelled in the exciting near-success and learned a lot from the almost total failure. I learned and moved on.

    Today, I have some purty cool Freeship renderings of a 25' trimaran that I'm just ACHING to build. But I probably will never do it - it's too much money and time to invest to risk discovering that I'm not as smart and talented as I like to think I am.... ;-)

    For many, it's simply ignorance. In other words, not being knowlegeable or experienced enough to know what's been tried, what works and what doesn't, what the real costs are (in the case of thinking building from scratch will be cheap) and some understanding of why. So often they make the mistake of not looking at what exists, and yet again reinvent the hull/rig/structure that's been proven to not work. The basic information and answers are easy to obtain.
    The thing that often bothers me is the guy who wants to build a sailboat, having never built anything, nor ever sailed before. Rare would be the talented visionary who would succeed at this. How would you know what to design, how to build it well, and once built, how would you know if it was your design or your sailing skills that "aren't working well," or even know it was or wasn't working well in the first place?

    At least today, on these forums, he can get some excellent advice. All to often, he won't take it. So yet again, the cycle begins anew.
     
  8. PortTacker
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    PortTacker Junior Member

    One of the boats I own is a Newick Tremolino.
    Mine is an Original (as opposed to later versions) which uses a Hobie 16 rig and amas.
    You might have a look at it, as the concept of re-using beachcats for a small trimaran is a very good idea!
    Designing your own center hull and beam system would be fun!
    http://www.geocities.com/tremsetters/

    As for your other questions, you need to define what you want the boat to do well. Go fast? Sail off the beach? Cross open water? Skilled sailor or raw beginner? Carry 12 people?

    Generally, long slender (below the waterline) mainhulls are all around better performers. Easily driven and quite fast. Wide flat bottoms just don't work, that's why you don't see any (rare anyway.) Simply put, you have too much drag to overcome to get to the point where that hull planes. But it will carry a lot of weight. Too slender, and it won't carry any payload. Look at existing boats, see what works. Note the peculiar shapes that are most common, there are reasons for them. Copy success where possible, alter to suit your needs where desired.
     
  9. basildog
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    basildog basildog

    "For some strange reason almost every man born thinks they can design a better boat than anyone else. Who knows why. Maybe it's hardwired in our brains. Few people would think the same about an airplane or even a car, but a boat? Yeah man, I can design a better boat than you can, !!!!"

    I guess seeing the question was asked by OS7 then that's where the response might be aimed at;
    Are you suggesting that all of us should still be sailing a Buccaneer 24 and going slow? Mankind has an obsession with speed - so whats so wrong with going with the flow and have a go (it rhymes LOL) at coming up with that illusive near impossibility - a boat thats 10% faster than its competition. That's what "yacht racing" is all about isn't it? As for the statement; "Few people would think the same about an airplane or even a car" of course they do everyone wants to go faster.
     
  10. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    "Are you suggesting that all of us should still be sailing a Buccaneer 24 and going slow? "

    Puleeze --Wash your mouth out with soap. :eek:

    Since when has a Buccaneer 24 been considered "SLOW". Ask Samnz about that.
    The Bucaneer 24 was well before it's time and can still give a lot of todays boats a run for their money. :cool:
     
  11. basildog
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    basildog basildog

    Old sailor7
    You are talking about a boat designed 40 years ago. Next thing you will be promoting is that Crowther's Kraken 33's, would still compete against, say the current Farrier 33, or the Buccaneer 25 will compete with a Farrier 25. Maybe you owned a Buccaneer 25 40 years ago, I know I did 20 years ago and by todays standards they are a dog to sail and slow! Of course you have no ax to grind - not promoting anything of course.
     
  12. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    hey Bassa
    Don't you go knocking the Kraken 33 - and you being an aussie and all. Lock Crowther was years ahead of his time when he designed that little beauty - and mate, if you updated a K33 today, put a decent rotating mast and taller three quarter rig and roached main aboard, stripped all the crap out that everyone seems to put aboard these boats, tuned the foils, I think you would give a Farrier 33 some annoyingly close competition.
     
  13. basildog
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    basildog basildog

    G Day Gary,
    Yeah maybe you're correct but jeez it would be a scary ride. I've had the s***t scared out of me a few times on 'Manu Puru' a kraken 33 and that was 25 years ago. But however I feel you are not correct in what you say, a Buccaneer 25 (Capricorn - for example - which I owned for a few years) was and still is possibly, a good boat, but even hot rodded up is nowhere near a Farrier 24/25 for performance, accommodation and the biggey in my eyes - safety. I've had a couple of spinouts on Capricorn that lost me repeat business in the crew department.

    Check out this clip; http://www.graingerdesigns.com.au/golive_pages/news_wangi08_video.php

    and tell me if a Buccaneer 24 would have recovered in the same fashion as the Farrier 24. I reckon it would have dug its nose in spun around the leeward float and ended up with the spinnaker wrapped around the mast -dumping a couple of crew over the side - if it was still upright. Believe me I know because I've done it.

    And I do have this vague perception that Old sailor is pushing his barrow a bit hard here.

    Tony
    ps be gentle with the Aussie thing eh, I was born and breed in NZ bro.
     
  14. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Basildog.
    Your'e out to lunch mate. :rolleyes:
    Why do you keep equating the B24 with these other racing tris.
    Lockie designed the little Buccaneer 24 to be a simple to build, inexpensive pocket CRUISER. (No such boat as the Buccaneer 25). That is the basis on which I am selling the plans.

    The fact that it turned out so fast, compared to the trimarans of the day, doesn't mean that it could compete with todays carbon wonders and I am not touting it as such.

    I sail on a friends Corsair28R. It, and a sister ship have dominated the racing on Pittwater, every Saturday in year round racing.
    Not counting the Crowther 41' catamaran "Quickstep", which until "Indian Chief" joined the fleet, was arguably the fastest sailboat on Pittwater.
    Now "Rapid Ride", another Tony Grainger Cat, has joined in the fray.

    In this years summer series the two hot Corsairs are being left far behind.
    The Farrier 23, 24s don't even rate. :eek:

    Basildog. Please tell me if you have ever heard of a Buccaneer 24 that has capsized or pitchpoled.
     

  15. jamez
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    jamez Senior Member

    I think a well prepped and sailed B24 would smoke a poorly prepped and sailed F24 most days. The modern incarnation of capricorn has beaten Farriers and GBE's on the right day.


    I looked at Manu Puru when she was for sale in run-down condition a few years back for 15k. I seriously considered buying her but on close inspection the size of the job scared me off. Restored, with an updated rig, I think she would have made a great boat. Current owner has added a larger cabin, but doesn't seem to have done much else. Heres a pic.
     

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