Real world speed (without phony advertising)

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Gary Baigent, Mar 22, 2009.

  1. Gary Baigent
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 3,019
    Likes: 134, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 509
    Location: auckland nz

    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Banque Populaire V and Groupama 3 at the starting-blocks this year in the Mediterranean and Atlantic – and also Around the World, Trophée Jules Verne !, the fwo maxi-trimarans Banque Populaire V, 40 metres OA,(Pascal Bidégorry) and Groupama 3, 31.5 metres OA,(Franck Cammas) will go head to head to set new records.
    Now this is real competition, no wussy cruiser/racer Gunboats against Swan 65's but flat out ocean racers with the best multihull sailors in the world crewing aboard - but BP is the larger tri - what thoughts amongst you informed experts on how G3 can combat this?
  2. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    Since they are both using ama foils I'd bet on Group ama in smoother conditions and the big one when its really rough. What do you think,Gary?
  3. Gary Baigent
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 3,019
    Likes: 134, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 509
    Location: auckland nz

    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    It is interesting that crew that sailed on the RTW record holding maxi cat Orange (a heavy boat compared to the two tris, almost twice as heavy as Groupama 3)) found that the big Ollier was only fast in strong winds - the tris will of course be a lot quicker in light airs (that is a given) and Groupama will probably be a little quicker than Banque Populaire in the lighter stuff too, although both tris have very similar weight to sail area (Bruce nos) - and the big boat, being bigger, will be faster in heavier conditions, this is a basic. I mean it is going to be superb smaller tri against superb larger one - and the larger one will most likely win, But light airs may favour the small? boat and let it pull out to a lead that may be hard to run down. And of course the crews have to keep these large, light platforms intact.
  4. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    To me, the real story of the potential speeds of these boats does not hang in the size, or the technology employed, but rather in the experience of the respective crews involved.

    Standing way out in the crowd of really good French sailors with experience on very fast multihulls, is the team assembled by Cammas. It has recently been reported that G3's crew will include American, Stan Honey, who is without doubt one of the finest navigator/tactician/weather routing specialists in sailing today.

    While Honey will certainly give the G3 boys a big edge, the really huge news just released is that Thomas Coville is set to join the team for at least some of the record runs they will attempt. How many and which ones seems to be still up in the air, AFAIK.

    This means that the boat can be pushed very hard around the clock by two incredibly talented and extremely experienced skippers. It also gives the team another, high performance multihull RTW wizened head to add to the inevitable "which way do we go and how fast can we go when we do go there?" conferences on board.

    After twice breaking his own 24 hour speed/miles covered record with Sodeb'O in the last RTW attempt, Coville is sitting atop a series of amazing records with big multihulls. I think that he is going to thrive in a fully crewed environment.

    The suitcases of cash being tossed by Groupama in this pursuit is nothing short of remarkable and speaks directly to their philosophy of sponsorship.

    Whatever BP does to counter this G3 dreadnought is going to be interesting to watch.
  5. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest


    From Groupama's (EXCELLENT) site:

    The priority has been on designing a multihull, which can be manipulated by a crew of ten people and therefore not enter into the nature of the length which was in force: Groupama 3 is not a maxi multihull! It's a trimaran, which is also heavily inspired by Groupama 2, the 60 foot Orma: with the adoption of foils and the installation of three rudders, with a wide, open cockpit and a proportionally moderate sail plan. As a result, we opted for a relatively small boat which is rather light, progressive and very reactive. The deck plan enables the crew to manoeuvre faster in order to adjust the sail area to changes in condition and hence permanently exploit the trimaran's potential.

    As the record programme included above all the Jules Verne Trophy, it was necessary to take into account the `Southern ocean' parameter: the foils are far forward so that the boat is nose up, the freeboard is high to prevent the bow from burying, the height of the mast limits the trim changes. The balance when sailing is considerably safer than on a 60 foot Orma... "

    Technical specifications
    LOA/ Beam 31.50 m / 22.50 m
    Weight (Jules Verne Trophy conditions) 18 tonnes
    Air draft 41 m
    Boom length 12 m
    Draft 5.70 m

    Sail area surface (Incidences sails)

    Mainsail 356 m2
    Solent 201 m2
    Gennaker 472 m2
  6. Samnz
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 235
    Likes: 4, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 47
    Location: Auckland

    Samnz Senior Member

    I would say whoever finishes wins, either one or both will break for sure, look at the last RTW monohull challenge!!!

    It takes such small damage to put them out of the race, a rudder, rigging, sails...

  7. Gary Baigent
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 3,019
    Likes: 134, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 509
    Location: auckland nz

    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Pascal Bidégorry et ses hommes - no mention of who the crew is save for Marcel van Trieste - but Pascal is no slouch having won on the smaller Orma 60 BP !V and he'll surround himself with some fine gars, excuse my French - but you could be right Chris, that is a rock star collection on Groupama.
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.