Reactive thrust of submerged waterjet

Discussion in 'Jet Drives' started by markmywords, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    I lost money on a bet 20 years ago on this. I said that the water from the jet needs the water outside the boat to push against. The guy with me on the boat said so you think that if we park the boat at the bottom of the slip way and fire the water jet up the slipway the boat wont move --I said no the boat wont move, it will just pump water up the slip. Duh!

    So we did just that, the boat accelerated away from the slip with as much thrust as always. This was the ski boat from the largest sloop in the world built in Thailand called Miranda (I think) .
     
  2. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    yipster designer

    well, contradictionary to what i would bet have read on another waterjet site
    i now read on twindisk's site: http://www.twindiscpropulsion.com/it/JETFeatures.htm
    jets are way more efficient going fast, so would i disagree with twindisk, i would not dare!
    did read up on water, jets, scramjets, aurora, x51 and formulas, could not find much on a pulsing waterjet tho
    very intriqued but totally confused better round it off for now with these jets :p http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1f2_1189625978
     
  3. jehardiman
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    Very, very wrong. That sounds like some sales smoke and mirrors using apples and oranges for direct comparisons.

    Pump-jets are always less efficient than regular wheels when both are properly designed and free from other constraints, and will deliver less thrust per input hp even when stationary (where efficency is zero) than a conventional wheel. It is just the nature of the beast because they have exactly the same cavitation issues as an open wheel, as well as wall and nozzle losses which an open wheel does not have. It is true that an open wheel optimized for high speed may have cavitation issues at bollard that will not allow it to absorb full high speed power, but conversely at high speed the water jet will have much less thrust than the open wheel. This is why most boats are open wheels, it takes less power at speed than a pump-jet.

    What pump-jets DO bring to the table is a draft, disk size, and possibly weight reduction, and you just pay for that in maximum efficiency.
     
  4. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    yipster designer

    some more advantages and pro-jet info at http://www.hamjet.co.nz/hamiltonjet_waterjet/waterjet_advantages but under history and bringing the jet above the waterline it mentions
    ok, could be trust remained the same but drag was eliminated but than wonder why -if not held down- that car lifted by fireman dont fly higher but still have to read up more
     
  5. jehardiman
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    The weight of the water in the hoses....the system is self limiting.
     
  6. anthony goodson
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    anthony goodson Senior Member

    In the opening line of my post I conceded that a large slow moving propellor was good for bollard pull, fact. You concede in your post that an open wheel optimised for high speed may have cavitation issues at bollard pull that will not allow it to absorb full high speed power,thats true also .But a jet ,which by it's very nature is configured for high speed will regardless of this still absorb 90%ish of its power at bollard pull and there is the difference and my point. It would seem that we agree on this point ,which was the only one I made. So where does the wrong ,very wrong verdict that you made come from ,and where does the greengrocery come into it.
     

  7. jehardiman
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    This is the statement that I object to

    This statement is disingenious at best, and wrong at worst. A pump-jet will always absorb power to it's cavitation/starvation limit (let us say 90% of delivered shp as a talking point), regardless of inlet speed. Similarily a "standard" prop will absorb 100% (yep it has to...there are no losses...it all goes into the prop) of the delivered shp from bollard to flank as long as it is kept below it's face cavitation limit. The question here is how much useful thrust will be delivered...and the answer to that is " it depends". What you are trying to insinuate by your statement is that an open propeller performs worse than a pump-jet at bollard, and that is not true as a general case. A well designed open propeller/prime mover set will produce more thrust than a pump-jet at bollard just because it has less losses.

    Now that said, if you stated that given the limitations of small boat propeller disk size and ICE rpm-torque curves that a pump-jet can produce more bollard than the typical i/o set of the same hp I would agree with that. But that has more to do with the boat design and engine selection than with the capability of the propulsor.
     
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