Random Chip Thread

[A II]

This thread is a home for all conversations that stray too much from the original topic were they originated, and for all other homeless random chips.

I'll start with a reply to post #116 on the thread ‘‘Why I'm Following Sven Yrvind’’

No problem at all with sidetracks, Angel, if they don't go on toooo long. I'm absolutely a culprit myself. Its the digression into politics and other contentious subjects that result in testosterone fuelled willy waving (uk colloquialism!) that is less than constructive.

My teacher father inlaw says 'the red herring is sacred'

Speaking of red herrings (see what I did there) I was delighted to discover recently that the term originated from the wonderful William Cobbett (Cottage Economy, Rural Rides) who apparently sabotaged hunts by distracting the dogs with the strong smell of a kipper.

Thanks Adrian, it's a bit like the Westerns Phil posted about on the Random Picture Thread in post #8746...

By now we're talking longer about the sidetrack than the duration of the original sidetrack, so time to start this thread just in case more comments on it show up . .

 

[Will Gilmore]

Just to get a little off-topic for a moment.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[hoytedow]

Zemblanity: Learning how manipulated we have been by an umbrarchy for decades.

 

[Will Gilmore]

The Zemblanity of this insanity in the paucity of humanity by man. Can he not quiet his profanity and listen with amity to the lessons of the manatee and forget about his vanity?

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[hoytedow]

Like.

 

[A II]

I've posted the below on the thread ‘‘Why I'm Following Sven Yrvind’’ in post #141 as an example of a spoon bow in ± Sven's ocean capable boat size range.

For any possible responses on it related to Sven, please post them there.

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For any possible responses on the PAR Riccelli Yacht Design Discrete (RYD-14.11) not related to Sven Yrvind, I've copy pasted post #141 from the thread ‘‘Why I'm Following Sven Yrvind’’ to below on this ‘‘Random Chip Thread’’, to not distract the original thread's main topic where this post originated.

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The much missed Paul (Anthony) Riccelli, PAR on many boat forums (R.I.P.), has a 18¼' (5.56 m) LOD design, Discrete (RYD-14.11), with various options for the: keel — draft — hull length — cabin length — cockpit length — rig — build method — stern form — bow form, including a spoon bow.

PAR yachts - Riccelli Yacht Design → Sailboats ↓ Discrete (RYD-14.11) (clickable pics and drawings for enlargement)

‘‘ . . . . Discrete is a real ocean capable, little cruiser. Her stability range is very high and she's about as small a boat, as I'd want to go out into deep blue water with. . . . . . . . She's a real little ship and will bring you home with comfort and safety, a feature just not seen in most 18' sailors. . . . . ’’

‘‘ . . . . The gaff sloop shows the clipper knee bow, with trail boards and all. . . . . ’’

‘‘ . . . . The schooner rig version shows the spoon bow (which I prefer) . . . . ’’

↓ ‘‘ . . . . Also available as a hard chine, using taped seam build methods . . . . ’’

See PAR's Liquid Joinery page for tips & tricks.

 

[Will Gilmore]

That's a very good looking boat, esp the schooner. That also looks like a lot of rocker. I would expect her to hobbie-horse in a sea. When there's little wind to keep her steady. Is that not the case?

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[A II]

The rocker is most at the center line and much less where the hull gets wider, so I expect no hobby horsing from her.

On SailNet it says Sir Francis Chichester said Gipsy Moth IV was a hobby horser.

— Hobby Horse on Pinterest —

 

[A II]

Re post#6:

PAR yachts - Riccelli Yacht Design → Sailboats ↓ Discrete (RYD-14.11) (clickable pics and drawings for enlargement there)

‘‘ . . . . The stretched version is 20' on deck and can additionally have a counter stern installed, which brings her to about 22' on deck. . . . . ’’

Here's some 24' competition for PAR's longest 22' Discrete version, German links....

- Neue HD 24 hat Wasser unterm Kiel (schwert)

- Aktuelle Projekte aus der Werft: neue HD 24

- Technsiche Daten HD 24 Venja (Specs)

- HD 24 Venja

 

[A II]

Below a quote from post #154 of the thread ‘‘Why I'm Following Sven Yrvind’’, below that I've copy pasted my reply in post #156.

For any responses on it related to Sven, please post them on the original thread.

For any possible responses on the PAR Riccelli Yacht Design Emily Rose (RYD-21.7) and the Indian Head Schooners not related to Sven, I've copy pasted my reply in post #156 from the thread ‘‘Why I'm Following Sven Yrvind’’ to below on this ‘‘Random Chip Thread’’, to not distract the original thread's main topic where this post originated.

. . . . A spoon bow is meant to create some dynamic lift along with buoyant lift, and is useful for sailing down wind in big waves. It generally does not dig in, causing a possible broach. And it carries considerable buoyancy forward of the bow water line. . . . .

PAR has extended that on his Emily Rose (RYD-21.7) design, which he calls a Indianhead bow profile.

PAR yachts - Riccelli Yacht Design → Sailboats ↓ Emily Rose (RYD-21.7) (clickable pics and drawings for enlargement there)

‘‘ . . . . A recent upgrade to this design is a new Indianhead bow profile and a counter stern extension. The counter stern is better mannered in following seas and the new bow profile lengthens the LWL slighted when heeled and happens to be my favorite shape. . . . . ’’

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Below some historical Indian Head Schooners:

↓ Fishermen's Voice News & Comment for and by the Fishermen of Maine → Vol. 10, No. 7 July 2005: Tis The Season → Continue

‘‘ . . . . The James S. Steele at the Story shipyard in Essex Ma., end of 19th century. Considered the antithesis of the clipper schooner, the Tom McManus design reduced deadwood, added a deep rockered keel and overhanging ends. The result was a commercial hull that would come across the wind in seconds, faster than racing yachts and safer than clippers. . . . . . . . . As for the designers, ignorance may have been added to complicity. It was not until the McManuses of Boston began designing boats with deeper draft, more drag and reduced weight aloft, that casualities began to fall in the 1880s. The design changes the McManuses made became common on the banks. Tom McManus, like his father, the sailmaking patriarch John H., sailed aboard fishing schooners and knew first hand the realities. Since his teen years, Tom was concerned with the unseaworthy characteristics of the fishermen. He spent years trying to design the widow maker out of existence and finally did with his Indian Head schooner. Its bow was projected out to where the bowsprit would have been. . . . . ’’

↓ Rose Dorothea Lipton's Cup 1907 Fishermen's Race

↓ Rose Dorothea 1907 broke top mast racing won Lipton Cup

‘‘ . . . . The Rose Dorothea was one of the famous "Indian Head" schooners designed by Thomas McManus and built at the Tarr & James Shipyard in Essex, MA in 1905. She was 108.7 feet (33.1 m) long, weighed 108 tons, with a gross register tonnage of 147 tons, and a crew of 26 men.

As a part of Boston's "Old Home Week" celebration in August 1907, a cup was offered by Sir Thomas Lipton for a 42-mile Fishermen’s Race in Massachusetts Bay from Provincetown to Gloucester to Boston. Despite losing her fore top mast in the final leg of the race, the Rose Dorothea, with her crew from Provincetown, won the race by 2 ½ minutes, beating the schooner Jesse Costa.

She was was sold in 1916 to a Newfoundland company (W. Campbell & J. J. McKay, St. John’s, Newfoundland), which used her to ferry salt, codfish and other supplies to Portugal. On 16 February 1917, the German U-Boat submarine SM U-21 surfaced next to the schooner as it approached Portugal, approximately 15 nautical miles (28 km) off Cabo de Santa María (36°50′N 8°25′W). After allowing her crew to evacuate into lifeboats, the U-Boat sank her. . . . . ’’

↓ Provincetown, MA has a half scale model of her in the Public Library, the former Center Methodist Church → The Rose Dorothea

‘‘ . . . . On August 1, 1907, the Rose Dorothea won the Lipton's Cup, despite breaking one of her masts, in the first and only Fisherman's Race, a 42-mile race from Provincetown to Gloucester to Boston. The original vessel was sold in 1916 to a Newfoundland company that used her to ferry salt and other supplies to Portugal. In February 1917, a German U-Boat submarine surfaced next to the schooner as she neared the coast of Lisbon, and then, after allowing her crew to evacuate in lifeboats, sank her. Sixty years later, in 1977, construction began on the replica fishing schooner, and it was dedicated on June 25, 1988. The completed model spans a 66'6" length and a 12'6" beam. The original vessel was 108.7 feet long, weighed 108 tons and had a crew of 26 men. . . . . ’’

 

[A II]

Thomas McManus & the American Fishing Schooners (amazon link)

note the Indian head knockabout bow​

‘‘ Thomas F. McManus was the most influential and prolific designer of American fishing schooners between 1890 and 1925. In this, the first comprehensive biography of McManus, historian and naval architect W.M.P. Dunne traces the McManus family's Irish origins, their emigration as skilled artisans from Ireland to Boston in the 1840s, and their successful establishment there as sailmakers and fishermen. Tom McManus began as a fish dealer, but through his work with noted naval architects he took up designing in the 1880s. Always interested in the lot of his fishermen friends, he made many design improvements to fishing vessels, most notably the elimination of the bowsprit in his knock-about model. He also promoted fishermen's races, and his schooner Henry Ford was among the best of the racing fishermen of the 1920s. ’’

 

[Will Gilmore]

Camden Maine, 1977.
Adventure’s History | The Gloucester Adventure https://schooner-adventure.org/history/schooner-adventure/

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[A II]

Will, is that you doing the painting there ?

 

[A II]

Schooner Adventure . . .

Adventure's history...

‘‘ The Schooner Adventure was built in 1926 and launched on September 16 at the John F. James and Son Yard in Essex, MA. She was designed by Thomas McManus as a “knockabout” — having no bowsprit which were known as “widow makers” due to the dangerousness of working on the jib. She spent 27 years fishing cod, haddock and halibut off Georges Bank. As a dory trawler, she carried 14 dories and a crew of 27. . . . . ’’

Under sail in 1926​

 

[A II]

Skippy​

‘‘ “Skippy” the ship’s dog pictured with Dennis Meuse, circa 1950s.

Skippy followed Fred Thomas, the engineer that kept the engine in good order, aboard Adventure in about 1936.

Skips favorite spot on the schooner was the galley where Paddy Nolan made some of the best tasting food in the fishing fleet. The galley was the warmest spot aboard, and there was always something yummy to eat! . . . . ’’