Building an Instant Boat

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by ironmetal250, Jul 18, 2008.

  1. ironmetal250
    Joined: Jul 2008
    Posts: 16
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Maryland

    ironmetal250 Junior Member

    Greetings,

    I'm 16 years old and new to boat building, boats, and woodworking in general, but I do have experience crabbing on a large work boat and have decided to build my own small boat to learn how to sail, crab, clam, and explore in. I have recieved a $1400 grant from the lab I'm interning in this year (I used $260 to buy a watch and computer tablet and saved $200 of it in my savings account) and may be able to take some money out of my savings account if it's needed, so I don't think money will be a problem as long as I buy the cheapest materials that will make a lasting boat...

    http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm
    http://www.instantboats.com/surf.htm
    http://www.instantboats.com/gypsy.htm
    http://www.instantboats.com/skiff15.htm

    These are the four plans that I really need to decide from. As I said I'm interning in a cellular biology lab as well as completing my senior year in high school so I may not be able to put massive amounts of time into building the boat (except on weekends). I have been reading "Instant Boatbuilding with Dynamite Payson" and Bob Bond's "Handbook of Sailing" as well as looking for prices on sails, trailers, motors, crabbing/clamming equipment, etc.

    I guess I'm just looking for some general advice and some pointers on which boat to build (I don't know how to sail yet so I'm leaning towards the Gypsy or 15' Skiff) and what materials/tools to use as to save the most money I can while building a boat that will last me around 8-9 summers (I plan to go to college and graduate school to study Environmental Science so I doubt I'll have the time to build a new boat during those 8 years). General information about starting out with real boating could help too, aside from getting a job at a marina/on a boat due to the fact that it would be impossible for me to do so this year. It has always been a dream of mine to go out to sea, and while I'm aware that I couldn't do so on any of the boats I've mentioned, the experience of building the boat and sailing it for a few years would give me the knowledge I need to build a larger boat capable of making expeditions on the ocean (granted, much later in my life).

    Thank you in advance for any help you can give me, I know that my situation may not be the best for beginning boatbuilding but I do learn almost anything very, very quickly and I don't see another window of opprotunity (financially and timewise) for me to begin boatbuilding for a long, long time.
     
  2. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: Cape Town South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    Hi

    I would recommmend the Gypsy or something very similar from the other designers

    http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/SH14_study.htm?prod=SH14

    https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=429

    the "bulls eye" from Glen L is my favourite for you

    i have done a lot of dinghy sailing and building - and please believe me when i say that the "bulls eye" will give you EVERYTHING you are looking for, it is a remarkable design.

    Please buy a plan for your first build, DO NOT think you are going to save money by doing your "own thing"

    I have started my "new build" which is a Jarcat type of boat and i will be posting the first pics in the next month, this will help you a lot to actually see how to work with marine plywood and epoxy, it is easy. Always remember to work very accurately.

    Later in the year i will also post pics on how to build a trailer

    Welcome to the world of boating - it is a journey that will give you satisfaction for your whole life:D
     
  3. kengrome
    Joined: Jul 2006
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    Location: Gulf Coast USA

    kengrome Senior Member

    Hi ironmetal250,

    You never said how many people the boat should carry or what conditions you'll be using it in, but based on what you've explained so far here are my thoughts:

    I would forget about the Skiff15 if I were you. You said you want to sail and this is a power boat so probably not very good for sailing even if it comes with sail plans.

    Zephyr is almost 21 feet long, way more than you need for 2-3 people, and it will cost substantially more, take longer to build, and be more of a hassle to deal with on land because it's so big.

    Surf is just as difficult to build as Zephyr only smaller, but it's still a narrow boat and maybe not the best for a beginning sailor because of this.

    Gypsy is okay, it's wider than Surf and Zephyr so should have more initial stability and it is easier to build but it's still more difficult to build than other designs I'm familiar with.

    Personally I might go with Summer Breeze. It's a smaller, less costly and easier to build boat than any you listed. Not only are the plans free but they come with sail plans too -- and it seems that more than a few people really like them:

    http://www.simplicityboats.com/summerbreeze.html
    http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/01/contest2001/entry05/pageone.htm
    http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/02/projects/summerbreeze/index.htm
    http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/s/projects/summerbreeze/index.cfm
    http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/projects/summerbreeze/index.cfm
    http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/projects/sb/index.cfm

    Whatever boat you choose it sounds like you'll do fine if you use quality building methods -- and keep the boat inside a building when you're not actually using it. Some boat owners can't be bothered to care for their boats responsibly. It doesn't take much time but people are often just plain lazy. If you're not lazy about it, your boat could easily last decades with a minimal amount of care and maintenance ... :)
     
  4. ironmetal250
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: Maryland

    ironmetal250 Junior Member

    Thank you both for your input.

    I will be bringing a maximum of 3-4 people along in the boat.
    Conditions will be everything from a small lake to the Potomac River to the Chesapeake Bay, so it should be able to handle large estuaries.

    Is it fine if I build the boat outside if I cover it with a tarp? I don't have enough room to build it in my garage.

    Maine B: I kind of like the Sharpie 14 you've suggested and think that I might go with building that...

    Edit: Do you think I might be able to build something like this:
    https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=459
    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/sf/pocket/to16/simplicity/index.htm
    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/sf/pocket/to16/mystery/index.htm
    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/sf/pocket/16-20/micro18/index.htm
    or
    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/sf/pocket/to16/ptarmigan/index.htm
    Probably more complicated but would be a lot more useful to me. What skill level and $$$ level would be needed to build any of those boats, or am I getting ahead of myself?
     
  5. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    Location: Ontario

    marshmat Senior Member

    Hi ironmetal250,

    (1)
    Welcome aboard bd.net :)

    (2)
    In your first post, you had already gravitated to a few Phil Bolger designs. The current resident of my garage is a Bolger "Diablo", and I was a year younger than you are now when I built her. Believe me, you can do it and do a good job of it. Phil's plans are simple, elegant, incredibly accurate, and easy to follow.

    Forget the 15' workskiff here; it is meant to be heavily loaded all the time and, while it will perform admirably when loaded with work gear, it will be wet and bouncy when empty. If you want a power craft in that size, look at the Diablo instead, there is not much in that class that can match it for either speed or seaworthiness.

    Sail wise, the Gypsy is built using the same construction method as the Diablo. If you don't mind a bit of fibreglass work, it's a straightforward method that results in a remarkably strong hull, and while I have not sailed one they are reported to be quite a pleasant boat to handle.

    The Surf will likely have similarly decent performance under sail; it looks like it would surf better downwind (pardon the pun, but I think Bolger intended it that way) but would not row or go upwind in bad chop as nicely as the Gypsy is said to. In construction, you trade the messy fibreglass work of the Gypsy for some rather more exacting woodwork in the Surf; this is a matter of personal preference.

    Zephyr is substantially larger and may be beyond your target budget and space constraints.

    The boats from the Duckworks site you mention in your last post are all substantially larger and more complex than the Bolger designs you originally mentioned. The LOA may be the same but the displacement, which is the real measure of size and cost, is in some cases five or ten times that of the Bolger/Payson boats. They are definitely within reach of the first time builder, IF the patience and the bank balance are there.

    Take another good look at the Bolger/Payson site ( http://www.instantboats.com/boats.html ) and add up the cost of everything you'd need to build one. I think the Gypsy would be a good choice in your situation; the Sharpie 14 or Glen-L "bulls eye" suggested by Manie are similar, slightly more compact alternatives (but I wouldn't take more than 2 crew on the 11-footer). If you're really averse to fibreglass, consider Bolger's Windsprint or the Surf you already mentioned.

    The 15' class in general is capable of the lake and river sailing you mention. The light, dinghy-style ones we are talking about will require a bit more sailing skill in order to be taken on the Chesapeake, but can probably handle it in good weather. The heavy ones with cabins are probably a bit more than you really want at this point. Gypsy, or anything like her, will serve you well for many years. Going much smaller might save you money and space now, but you could end up wanting to build a larger boat in four or five years when your sailing skills are good enough to get out for longer trips.

    About the shop: A garage is preferable. A tarp over poles is okay if the weather stays warm. Outdoors with a tarp for protection when you're not there will pose problems in the Maryland climate; you get a combination of rain, scorching sun, and a wide temperature range that will really make it hard to keep wood, fibreglass and paint stable and predictable enough to deal with. It's not impossible but will require a close eye on the weather forecasts.

    Note that the construction times and costs estimated on all of these websites are significantly underestimated. An experienced builder, in a hurry and with bulk-source material suppliers, might be able to come close. But a first-timer will take somewhat longer and, having to buy small quantities of materials locally (and neglecting to think about things like cleats, rudder pintles, etc. in his budget) will often spend more than anticipated.
     
  6. ironmetal250
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: Maryland

    ironmetal250 Junior Member

    marshmat, thank you for your advice. I was worried that the boats I mentioned in my last post would be a lot more expensive to build and it seems like I'm right. I really don't think I'll be able to spend more than $1400 total so I think that the Gypsy is the best bet (unless any of the duckworks or Glen-L boats
    (specifically the first one, the Minuet model) I mentioned could be built for under that price, which I highly, highly doubt given what you said). I am going to order the plans this weekend and I'll post back with pictures when I get started.

    P.S.: Is it really necessary to build a model first?
     
  7. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    Location: Ontario

    marshmat Senior Member

    Payson's suggestion to build a model first is just to help you visualize how the boat will come together. You don't have to do it. But you can build a suitable model of any of the boats discussed here, using scrap cardboard from your parents' recycling bin, in a few hours. (I still have mine....)
     
  8. ironmetal250
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: Maryland

    ironmetal250 Junior Member

    Just as an estimate, how much total money would you expect me to spend building the Gypsy?
     
  9. kengrome
    Joined: Jul 2006
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    Location: Gulf Coast USA

    kengrome Senior Member

    I agree with everything Matt said.

    Now that I know you want to take 4 people on the boat, I can tell you that Summer Breeze is not appropriate, it is simply too small. Instead I suggest Jim Michalak's Ladybug. The owner of Duckworks built one and has nothing but good things to say about it:


    [​IMG]

    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/ladybug/index.htm
    http://duckworksmagazine.com/06/projects/ladybug/index.htm
    http://buildingladybug.wordpress.com/

    No matter what boat you decide on, if you stay in the range of 14-15 feet and avoid boats with cabins and other complications you'll probably have a boat you can afford.

    Remember, boats that can use polytarp sails (and that come with the plans so you can make them yourself) will cost you much less than hiring someone to make sails for you. Sails made commercially for small boats like these can easily cost as much or more than the entire boat.

    On the other hand, if you're going to buy your sails anyways, check the prices at duckworks and get your order in early. Their sails are so good and so reasonably priced that they currently have a three month waiting list.

    :)
     
  10. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: Cape Town South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    Hi

    to build outside is not a problem, just take more care.
    cover well and watch out for moisture / condensation forming under the cover

    keep the wood dry and oil / fat free

    dont build a big boat first - avoid extra costs
    dont build a boat with a cabin - lots of extra work
     
  11. ironmetal250
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: Maryland

    ironmetal250 Junior Member

    Hey guys,

    Thank you again for all of the advice.

    I got an offer this morning from my mother, she said if I built a boat from a kit ( http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-local...2435&cart_id=379175c6b7cbec475a623ef29ef69b90 )( http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-local...7390&cart_id=7fb2f0bdc998bfb38dfc1cfe6415ceda )(she's worried that I won't be able to saw the pieces from the plywood right) to learn the basics, she would financially help me build a larger boat. Would I be able to learn enough building a kit in order to build this:
    https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=459

    Otherwise i think I'll stick with the Gypsy or the Ladybug.
     
  12. kengrome
    Joined: Jul 2006
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    Location: Gulf Coast USA

    kengrome Senior Member

    I cannot find a hull panel kit for Minuet, so that one won't solve the problem your mother is worried about anyways. Cutting the parts is the least of your worries anyways. The more important issue is how you put them together because that's what will make the boat safe or unsafe.

    Clearly you will learn more by building from plans than from a kit, so this decision all depends upon what you want to learn. Building from a kit is like putting a big puzzle together. So is building from plans, but when you build from plans you have to make the puzzle pieces yourself first.

    I think the big question here is:

    Do you want to make the puzzle pieces yourself before you put them together, or would you rather buy the pre-cut pieces and just assemble them? Either way you'll still learn a lot about building a boat if you've never built one before ... :)

    Don't forget the cost of the trailer, all the boats you're talking about will require one.
     
  13. ironmetal250
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: Maryland

    ironmetal250 Junior Member

    I'm not talking about a kit for the Minuet... my mother said that if I proved I could build a smaller/easier to build boat first that she would pay for the materials to build the Minuet from scratch. I've been told that kits may be just as hard as building from scratch so I think I've decided to build a smaller sailboat/dinghy/canoe from plans (maybe 10-12'?) that can be cartopped first. I'm going to decide on plans tonight so I'll post the boat I decide on here when I'm done... I'll keep all the suggestions in this thread in mind... the Bulls-Eye from Glen-L is looking good (3 different options for sail rigging, small enough to be cartopped, option for an outboard, can fit multiple people, looks cheap to build)
     
  14. kengrome
    Joined: Jul 2006
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    Location: Gulf Coast USA

    kengrome Senior Member

    Since your new design focus is 1-2 person boats I will once again recommend Summer Breeze. In this size range you should absolutely consider Bolger's Teal too:

    http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm

    Jim Michalak has lots of boats in your new size range, and all of Jim's boats are fast and easy to build:

    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/mixer/index.htm
    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/mixer2/index.htm
    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/piccup_pram/index.htm
    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/piccup_squared/index.htm
    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/skat/index.htm
     

  15. ironmetal250
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: Maryland

    ironmetal250 Junior Member

    I've decided that I'm going to build this boat: https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=183 without fiberglassing the entire exterior. It seems like it's easy enough to build (and cheap enough: I could probably do it for under 500$ if I don't use the Glen-L kits). I'm going to order the plans and patterns tomorrow and begin studying them, and probably pick up the wood next weekend and start to build during the week (I have a month break from my lab internship, so there's a good chance I'll be able to get it done and on the water by mid to end August). I can even afford an outboard motor (looking at prices of 1.2 hp - 3.0 hp motors on ebay, seeing some cheap ones) so I think I'll be able to do some of the crabbing I mentioned in my first post, though obviously not with 6-8 pots. I'll update this thread with pictures of my progress (if you don't mind, since it's not a Bolger design...).
     
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