Question: Hybrid/solar re: 55' displacement hull motor vessel

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by Phlip777, May 7, 2013.

  1. Phlip777
    Joined: May 2013
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    Phlip777 New Member

    Hi,

    I'm considering buying a displacement hull, steel 55' motor vessel. Thus, initiating research to attempt hybrid power on her. I'm unsure of displacement. She's 38 gross ton, with twin screws, and a 20 Kw gen set (yet to be installed, no inverter as of now). The props and shaft remain, old twin 180 HP diesels and trans. have been removed. Which brand or companies electric motors do you suggest/would be enough power? How many/what type batteries do you suggest on such a system.

    Regarding solar panel power augmentation: I further plead ignorance to all this. I'm considering adding an entire array of solar panels on a frame covering as much as 750 sq ft of the vessel doubling as a top deck canopy, if practical considering weight/top-heaviness, and windage? That's 10Kw of solar +/- If my math is right.

    Thanks for help.
     
  2. mselle
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Location: Island Mjoern, Westcoast of Sweden

    mselle Transportation Designer

    750 sq ft is the right size for 10 kWp of Solarpower. The little p stands for peak that means the 10 kW is the max rate you will get. At over 80 degrees F they produce only 80% output. With some of the panels in some shade (deck house) it goes down even more.

    The area of the solar panels will cover about the whole boat. At 55' lenght she has to be 15' wide.

    Without doing any calculations, even 10kW sounds not enough to propell a boat with 38 tons (sounds quite a lot to me anyway). A 40kW electric motor is good for a small car that weights 1 ton. The car can roll straight and even downhill. Your boat can't. Its like going uphill all the time. Tesla's batteries weight in at about half a ton for 60 kWh.

    You have to calculate the power she needs at a given speed. Then choose a motor which can deliver this power at 70%. Then multiply the kW by the time you would like to go under power. The capacity of your batteries should be at least 1.2 times as much.

    You definitly need another power source! And I guess a 20kW genset won't do it eighter.
     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Solar power vessels are designed to be ultralights and carry minimal accommodations and gear. Electric boats that charge at the dock, like water taxis, are more forgiving but have a very limited range. Converting a heavy power hogging boat to solar power is not realistic. Unless, of course, you are happy spending nights in the dark not to use battery power and only cruise a few miles a day.
     
  4. Phlip777
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    Phlip777 New Member

    Thanks Mselle and Gonzo

    I really appreciate your willingness to advise a novice. More broadly, your contributions REALLY assist/build the boating community
     
  5. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    You're welcome. It is always easier and cheaper to ask questions than to build something that won't work. I think experimenting is good, but some pre-planning and thinking makes it more likely to succeed.
     
  6. WestVanHan
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    I suggest you read the hybrid threads,particularly diesel electric threads.


    BTW you'd need maybe 10 tons of batteries and they'd cost a lot of money (much,much more than good reman diesels) just to go any distance over a few miles,particularly against wind and/or current.

    Can you get the old engines back? If not,find some good reman diesels-whatever the flavour-and put them in.
     
  7. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    On a steel boat it may already have a dry stack exhaust , or it might be possible to install one.

    With a keel cooler and dry stack exhaust you are able to install just about any car or truck engine at almost no cost, well nor like a Marine co$t.

    The Gross tonnage is a USCG measurement of VOLUME , and has zero to do with the vessels actual weight , displacement.

    The displacement in tons is needed to know how much power will be required , a look at the old engines would also get you in the ball park

    I would guess 80,000lbs or 90,000lbs , maybe more.

    Divide the displacement in pounds by 2240 and you will have tonnes.

    Usually 3 hp per ton is required for most cruising with 5hp ton for the engines rating as max.

    The International DT 360 ot 466 is my favorite for low cost great engines.

    Usually about $3000 to $5000 each from a werecked truck or skool bus with under 20,000 miles.

    SAE bell housing lets a std marine tranny be installed. Rebuilt Twin Disc if going first class.

    IF the boat will be used as a yacht , under 200-300 hours a year a std car V6 or V8 gas engine will be cheaper in the long run.
     
  8. WestVanHan
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    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    Great,get it together and tell us how it all actually works.

    BTW whats the C on those ones you plan to use?
     
  9. John Kane
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    John Kane Junior Member

    Phlip what speed are you trying to get out of the electric motors because if you won't to push 38 ton at hull speed around 7 knots then you will need at least 35 to 40 kw electric motors on both sides. So even if you can produce 10kw solar you are still 60 to 70 short.

    You will need additional power from a generator at least 60kw

    On the battery side of things the best would be lithium but very expensive between 80c and $1 per kw for the best marine environment safe ones.

    On the solar side if you get higher efficiency panels you could get 15kw from that 750sq/ft these would be something like the sunpower x21
     
  10. John Kane
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    John Kane Junior Member

    1c on the lithiums
     
  11. WestVanHan
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    IIRC typically the C is rated on a 20 hour.

    For quicker times the capacity can be as little as 20-25%-try to get a spec chart.
     
  12. John Kane
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    John Kane Junior Member

    Take a look at the lithionics battery,this is the one I'm using 6x12v-450amp
     
  13. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Ideling diesels kills them very rapidly , and a 200A alt is not really a load for 800 hp engine.

    Setting the vessel up so a modest gen set can feed the tiny electric motors will give the desired AC power and slow ships movement.

    Do not oversize the gen set , it too will die when run at low power for very long.

    "our intention is to push the boundaries of what is possible currently using ideas from a number of marine and automotive products while improving our enjoyment while reducing our cost and the impact on our environment."

    Great , but be prepaired for the first few attempts to be less sucessful than desired, which will be a great test of the depth of your cash.
     
  14. John Kane
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    John Kane Junior Member

    Fred see the magnum 53 hybrid post as their are more discussions on this topic, sorry for my multiple locations as I was new to this site and was not sure how to start a thread
     

  15. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    In fact, now you have three different threads on which you discuss the same thing... :p ;)
     
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