Quant 28-foil assist keelboat / DSS

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Jun 10, 2011.

  1. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    I apologize if I was not clear. I was asking about the 2.5 hours your were sailing really upwind in 18 to 20 knots, yet you make a statement about sailing a course that allowed 8.5 knots to make the foil work.

    So during that time were you sailing a true upwind course or were you reaching a bit to achieve the speed to make the foil work?

    What was your TWA and AWA during those 2.5 hours?
     
  2. quant28
    Joined: Jun 2012
    Posts: 11
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 28
    Location: Zurich

    quant28 Junior Member

    what is a true upwind course once again? there was a really bad and steep chop so i was choosing a course a bit deeper compared to one in flatter water. speed was then around 8.5. but i could have sailed higher and slower. the question is the output - the vmg. with the quant28 we sail against much taller boats (11 to 14.2 m) most of the time. We met some of them during this 2.5 h and they sailed higher angles than us. but they are so different boats that you can't compare. so i think you ask the wrong question. our boat is something inbetween a monohull and a catamaran. we go faster and therefore TWA is lower AWA is the same. in normal conditions - for what the Q28 is made, lets say up to 12kts, we always have the better vmg than comparable boats. another time: angles are of not the point you have to look on. we can sail maybe 10 degrees deeper in 12kts and than we can sail 12kts boatspeed. that can help sometimes and sometimes a mode closer to the wind is better. it depends on the race situation and on the wavepattern. remember our boat is very small and what you would call a little wake is for us maybe already a true obstacle.

    ok?
     
  3. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    I understand well the issues of being a small, light boat sailing in waves. My own boat is similar in length to the Q28, 800kgs without crew, and only 7.5 feet wide.

    I am asking for numbers so I can get a good idea about the VMG comparison. I can't calculate without an idea of the numbers. A speed of 8.5 might be good for VMG, it might not.

    I assume your flat water tacking angle would be about 80 degrees. So by sailing 10 degrees low (50 degrees TWA) in 12 knots your boatspeed goes from probably somewhere in the 6s to 12?

    In the 18 to 20 you would sail at what angle in a tight mode, at what speed? Then at 8.5 knots at what TWA?

    Is there a Polar Diagram for the boat that shows this?
     
  4. quant28
    Joined: Jun 2012
    Posts: 11
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 28
    Location: Zurich

    quant28 Junior Member

  5. sean9c
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 289
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 35
    Location: Anacortes,WA

    sean9c Senior Member

    Hey, that's not fair, we all want to know
     
  6. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Why would you not post it for all to see? There are some pretty sharp minds who view this site.

    Just FYI, you should modify your post to help conceal your e-mail address from viruses. It is a dangerous practice to post your address in the way you have.
     
  7. sean9c
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 289
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 35
    Location: Anacortes,WA

    sean9c Senior Member

    Paul B
    Isn't your boat Doug Peterson's old Wednesday Night racer with the trapezes? Do you still use the traps?
     
  8. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    That is the boat.

    PHRF won't allow the traps, so we can't race with them. We do put them on for fun blasting around the bay.

    I've thought about adding racks like the Q28, Brace^3, etc. I just can't justify the expense of carbon racks that will be an easy target for PHRF.
     
  9. sean9c
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 289
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 35
    Location: Anacortes,WA

    sean9c Senior Member

    Has to be hard to hold down without the RM the traps get you
     
  10. quant28
    Joined: Jun 2012
    Posts: 11
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 28
    Location: Zurich

    quant28 Junior Member

    The vpp i have for the Q28 to me seems not valuable in all parts in some it is too conservative and in other parts i can not judge it really at this stage. We on the Q28 are still not even in the middle of the learning curve.

    So it would need some explanation and the will of the audience to listen really. But this obviously is not how this forum works. I do not know why?

    Sometimes it seems to me that even if a boat was perfect, there are still people in this forum, that would seriously blame this boat for the wrong colour....ridiculous.

    In other words: you can waste a lot of time here. I am not a native english speaker so write down my thoughts, takes quite a while, if the content is a bit more complicated.

    Next to this i think some members do not have the slightest idea, what lakesailing on the narrow european lakes is all about. Lakesailing is a totally different game with other rules you have to obeye, than sailing on open waters (which is not my game on the other hand).

    Not there fault - but they should know about this fact - and therefore listen before judging - and some also could be less agressive and more polite!

    I therefore do not feel like publishing a paper of which i would be happy to discuss and maybe learn from others more about some of the Q28 phenomenons. Sorry, but here this seems useless to me.
     
  11. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Hopefully when you have an accurate Polar you will post it.
     
  12. quant28
    Joined: Jun 2012
    Posts: 11
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 28
    Location: Zurich

    quant28 Junior Member

    Hi Paul
    yes some day we will for sure. anyway i am looking forward to the new Q30 which is meant to be the boat after the one-off pre-series Q28 to be built in small numbers as an exclusive lake racer. And there we will need a valuable vpp as part of the selling information. our intention is to sell the Q28 end of (european) season latest

    I did a mistake by offering the incomplete vpp of the Q28. really sorry for this. it was dumb. i hope you do not think, that i am some arrogant *******.
     
  13. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,654
    Likes: 326, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Quant 28

    Michi- the most important-and very significant-thing is that in two major back to back regattas the Quant 28 got FIRST to finish in her class. That in wildly varying conditions proving again that DSS is a very fast and well proven technology.
    Congratulations to you and to Hugh Welbourn!
    Looking forward to the 30 in September....
     
  14. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    I think you are doing the right thing by only posting correct information. It doesn't do anyone any good if people post inaccurate info.
     

  15. quant28
    Joined: Jun 2012
    Posts: 11
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 28
    Location: Zurich

    quant28 Junior Member

    thanks Paul
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.