Pure epoxy or Epoxy and Polyurethane mix for building ?

Discussion in 'Materials' started by Vulkyn, May 3, 2011.

  1. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Well after going through local suppliers i ran into a problem that the epoxy used in Egypt is mainly for construction and has weak tensile and flexural strength.

    However the supplier does have a solution that is not pure epoxy based but a mix of Epoxy and polyurethane resin with a mix ration of 4 : 1 that is more flexible and has higher tensile strength but again for construction not boat usage.

    Any idea's on the practicality of using such a materiel ?

    Thx folks !
     
  2. bernd1972
    Joined: Mar 2011
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    Location: Laboe, Germany

    bernd1972 Holzwurm

    I would just stay with the proven stuff. Maybe if you can convince a good number of local boat builders to use EP and if you qualify yourself to offer support anf training you could possibly make a living on importing that stuff in Egypt. As you allready discribed it is allmost impossible to get over there and technical support on using it seems virtually impossible if even the west systems importer has no clue about the stuff they tell you (now combine that with theit steep prices). If you can get yout stuff to Egypt anf learn enough about boatbuilding to give advice on the use of wood epoxy technics you might have a market there
     
  3. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Yah that was one of the future plans !
    The short term is my Shoteya fishing boat which is being built. The medium is building my own boat with the resources available in Egypt if not then i will move things back and import the stuff.

    I was hoping i could get a reasonable boat using the resources available, in case of mistakes or problems i can always get more easily.

    So i have 2 choices either study the resources in the market and see if i can get a boat out of it or import the materials and build the boat (at a much higher cost).

    So my quest continues and thx for the idea :p i had that in mind and did discuss it with DOW chemicals to actually get a formulation specifically for boat building.
     
  4. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

  5. bernd1972
    Joined: Mar 2011
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    bernd1972 Holzwurm

    D.E.R. 331 or 354 seems to be what you would be looking for. The 331 is probably the one I would prefer.
     
  6. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    It may not be coincidental that the Gougeon Brothers who developed and sell WEST epoxy are in Bay City, Michigan which is located about twenty miles from Dow Chemical headquarters in Midland, Michigan.
     
  7. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Yah it is a well know fact that DOW chemicals produce the ingredients for many companies that custom formulate their products for different requirements, something like Bisphenol A and F are made by DOW and then integrated in West formulation.

    i was hoping that one of their formulations might be close to west, system 3 etc... so i called DOW Egypt and sent them an email.
    Lets just say i am knocking on all doors in that area.

    Still i would love any feedback regard the original question in this thread about polyurethane / Epoxy mix so i can close the door on that option ...
     
  8. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Right !!! Squeezed my brain cells for some much needed comparison for epoxy basic properties, although there is a lot more this at least gave me an idea where i should be headed. I unified all to Kg/cm2.

    Now its very clear that the CMB solution is not an option at all. It seems that dow's 331 is as close to the properties at it gets.
    PEC has unusual tensile elasticity as compared to others but since i opted to use west as the bench mark 331 is in the normal range.

    Now if there are more properties any one know i should be aware off please pass it on !:)
     

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  9. BPGougeon
    Joined: May 2011
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    BPGougeon Junior Member

     
  10. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Wow, that's a helpful post. I bet Vulkyn will be very happy to see this.
     

  11. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Thx BP :) !

    However i have been to mapso and head a LOT of problems dealing with them.
    I even had to order The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction books from the US because they could not or would not get it for me (very strange for West system's agents).

    They didn't have any of the fiberglass i wanted, failed to reply to my repeated emails and finally said they don't supply fillet. The price charged was also was 650 $ for 30 Liters / kg.

    Basically mapso deals with large customers and use west system for their own boat building. The lack of demand for small jobs is probably why they do not offer any support or have no time / patience to waste on small sized jobs which is why i had to look for alternatives.

    So yah was not a good experience at all ..... and i have all the emails as well.

    I received far better support from other companies i contacted, free samples, technical support, engineers checking my progress etc... which is why I contacted west system international to try and find another agent (as its clear west system is a customer oriented company, even for small business / DIY projects.

    The book and the web site for West System where superb however they helped me to learn a lot. I even helped translate / pass on some of guides to local fiberglass / boat repair workers to help them solve some of the problems they ran into at work.
     
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